He might be in for life!
Of course, since it's for the people, it's all good, right?
He might be in for life!
Of course, since it's for the people, it's all good, right?
He's still using the democratic method, ironic and stubborn the little fellow...Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
If this goes right for him the only thing it will confirm, besides his wish for eternal power, is the ignorance of latin americans. But I've high hopes on my fellow venezuelans, we should know better than that, the times of the "caudillos" are long gone...
Born On The Flames
Don't you know that extreme leftist regimes are the only one's that help the people. Just ask the Cambodians. Every other type of government is wicked.Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
So "he might be in for life" if he continues to stand for election until his death... and continues to get elected...if the government and then the people vote for the changes to the constitution ...wow... is it a slow news day ?![]()
Oh I forgot ..Its Chavez innit
Strange comment , would you be refering to the very very nasty former Cambodian regime that got western backing because they were not the Vietmanese leftist regime ?Don't you know that extreme leftist regimes are the only one's that help the people. Just ask the Cambodians. Every other type of government is wicked.
BTW Apache whatare the rules you have over there that will prevent Brown from standing for election up until his death ?
Meh, I don't like Chavez but I don't consider him a dictator. It's their country, let them ruin it as they please.
Viva la revolucion!
I support Israel
Originally Posted by Kralizec
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There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.
Sua Sponte
Aw man....
Chavez is just a paranoid anti American.... I bet he wants to go to war with us...
He probably can as soon as Cuba is under his political control... not to mention he has alot of support in the mid east (my assumption)...
Hitler was democratically elected as dictator-for-life. Sadaam Hussein was also re-elected periodically in accordance with the Iraqi constitution. Hosni Mubarak has gotten re-voted in every time for almost 30 years now.
Just because Chavez is getting elected doesn't mean that the Venezuelan political process is free or democratic.
Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
Uhm ... not really. There weren't even any free elections held after he was in power.
Whatever you might think about Chavez, the Hitler-example is not really fitting in this situation and smells a bit of hyperbole.
Last edited by Ser Clegane; 08-08-2007 at 21:03.
QFT.Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
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"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
Guys, we have a new system: demotarism.Chavez says he wants the people to decide how long he rules
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has confirmed that he will try to change the law to allow him to remain in power indefinitely.
Democracy but authoritarism at the same time.
Names, secret names
But never in my favour
But when all is said and done
It's you I love
Huh?Originally Posted by K COSSACK
I'm no Chavez fan -- in fact his dictatorial antics disgust me, what a wasted opportunity for a better Latin America; all for corrupted power -- but I'm quite certain he's neither stupid nor hateful enough to go to war with the most powerful country in the world just because.
The Middle East is a big place, too, very fanatical and very fractured. A socialistic Venezuelan President, even an openly anti-American one, is not necessarily suddenly popular there.
But I'm also curious why our favorite South American democratically-elected dictator is such a popular media figure. I mean, the American media pays more attention to him than many other, much more lunatic, dangerous, and even downright criminal, "leaders."
the guy's paranoid...must be with that presidential position.... he must be itching to hurt us someway...
and yeah he is popular in the mid east...
I likewise doubt him to be that stupid. If you're a Latin American country, the Panama episode should leave few doubts of what happens when you declare war on the USA.Originally Posted by K COSSACK
Personally I think he just has a knack for getting (international) attention and he revels in getting it. Doesn't hurt with the voters, either.
I think that Saddam and his 11 million-to-nothing "elections" serve as a better example here.Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
That's the classical oxymoron mi amigo... A democratic state and a dictatorial one are contradictories in substance and methods alike. Chavez is a fully democratical president, in a fully democratical State wich uses fully democratical proceedures, this has nothing to do with his ideologic alignment, wheter it's left or right.Originally Posted by Garcilaso de la Vega el Inca
Why do people state that Chavez is a dictator? Has he ever done anything outside his democratically given discretional powers without consulting the Congress first, or the people for that matter? The answer to your question is simple: Chavez is closer, both geographically and culturally.Originally Posted by Antiochus
Have you turned to the left compadre?Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
...Seriously though, what you're saying is truth, but do you've any proof of any kind of political crime from Chavez side?
That will never happen. Chavez knows that doing such a thing would mean a political, social and even natural suicide. It'll be a political suicide because no other latin american country wants any kind of war with any kind of State, and Chavez depends a lot on the support he gets from other latin american leaders. Social because he'll be despised forever by most people in latin america, not only Venezuela, I'll certainly be one of them. And natural because not even in his dreams Venezuela could have the necessary resources to wage war on the US, not only for it's own military and economical power, but for the support it will get from equally powerful allies...But it won't happen mostly because nobody needs a proper war anymore this days to destroy another State, and Chavez doesn't even want to destroy the US, he wants to destroy what he believes is the Empire of the US.Originally Posted by Kossack
He doesn't have any more support than skepticism and a great deal of downright opposition. But you don't seriously believe what you posted now do you...He probably can as soon as Cuba is under his political control... not to mention he has alot of support in the mid east (my assumption)...
Born On The Flames
Arthur foxache there are a hundred and one good reasons to nail chavez to the wall , but all we get is pure bollox .
Like ....the guy's paranoid...must be with that presidential position.... he must be itching to hurt us someway...
Or going for a Godwin........Hitler was democratically elected as dictator-for-life. ......
errrr, perhaps....., the Panama episode should leave few doubts of what happens when you declare war on the USA........yeah right![]()
Pathetic , absolutely pathetic , you get a numb nuts like Hugo and all people can come up with is a pile of tripeagain and again all thats posted on the subject doesn't amount to a hill of beans
If that is the quality of arguement from those that oppose him then VIVA CHAVEZBecause the opposition must be absolutely brainless
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As for the "story" of this topic , I am waiting for Apache to inform me what measures are in place in his country to stop Brown remaining in power till he dies![]()
That is the story isn't it...term limits![]()
Whats oxymoron?That's the classical oxymoron mi amigo... A democratic state and a dictatorial one are contradictories in substance and methods alike. Chavez is a fully democratical president, in a fully democratical State wich uses fully democratical proceedures, this has nothing to do with his ideologic alignment, wheter it's left or right.
I understand, but, I mean, its abuse of power, and it supposed to have a limit in his time in the power. The people wanted him in the power, but, someday, he have to left the power.
Thats autoritharism. You cant stay in the power for ever. Thats why. And he applies censure also, remember RCTV!
Now he needs to kill the oposition!
Names, secret names
But never in my favour
But when all is said and done
It's you I love
Nope I believe it alright...Originally Posted by Soulforged
doesnt want to destroy the US just the empire? c'mon spirit forged, where the heck did ya get that?
I'm not talking about resources and political position, lets face it... he seriously thinks we're gonna have a war with him so he's stocking up on weapons... dont need weapons if ya dont need a war...
paranoia knocks out any sense of logically fighting the enemy...
OxymoronOriginally Posted by Garcilaso de la Vega el Inca
Is not abuse of power. You know how many governors have tried it here, and there were a few presidents too, and Belgrano wanted an Inca descendent to rule South America forever. It's only abuse of power if you go outside the law and use a method that has not been given to you. However Venezuela's constitution can be changed, and will be undoubtly, and Chavez can certainly put this issue through public deliberation.
The subject of RCTV was a crystal clear lawful clausure also discussed on this forums. You see, Chavez is not stupid enough to go about closing any media that goes against him, but in this case the media acted as an organ for anti-Chavez propaganda, thus making it unlawful, against public order. He's however trying to subtly shut people who speak against his regime. I remember that during one of the matches of the American Cup on Venezuela this year, when people started to sing anti-Chavez songs the commentarists on the Stadium increased the volume of the background music or putted loud music so nobody could hear it, but he's not, as far as I can tell, using coercion to achieve the same ends, wich he could certainly do if he was a dictator.
You've an odd idea of what authoritarism is. Authoritarism applies to certain situations in wich a leader uses his authority only to carry out his own plan, without proper consult or the proper proceedures. I haven't seen that so far.
Why is Tribes again a Junior Member, it doesn't fit him people...Originally Posted by Tribes
Have you heard or read one of his public discourses? You'll notice that he emphasizes over and over again that he's anti-emperialist, he's not the first one to label the USA as imperialist...Originally Posted by Kossack
EDIT: Spelling
Last edited by Soulforged; 08-09-2007 at 11:48.
Born On The Flames
[QUOTE=Soulforged Why is Tribes again a Junior Member, it doesn't fit him people...[/QUOTE]
I'd heard it had something to do with an involved story featuring a goat, three nuns and 15 yards of surgical tubing.....
....but I might have got that wrong.![]()
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
He'll be an ordinary member again once the time's been served, although I'm slightly puzzled at how he can continue to post in the Backroom despite having been busted down (again).Originally Posted by Soulforged
An addition to Caius Flaminius' guide on How to Become a Member - Devastatin Dave and Tribesman's guide on How to Become a Junior Member.
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Ooohhh... i see it now....
@ tribesman... what bullox? that hugo chavez isnt dellusional? paranoid? thinking the CIA will assasinate him?
Thats great soul and tribes, hugo is a smart and wonderful leader lol![]()
what an argument you guys come at me with.... u got a long way to go b4 u convince every1 that hugo is a sane man...or convince anyone at all.
Shortly after President Von Hindenberg died, Germans voted in a plebiscite to confirm Hitler as "Fuhrer und Reichskanzler", with 85% "yeas".
So the Germans wanted Hitler to stay in power, same as the Venezuelans want Chavez.
And for those of you who were wondering, heavy-handed intimidation of the press and partisan persecution and purging of opposition party members from all positions of power and authority do disqualify Mr. Chavez from the Democracy club...
Okay, not dictator. Try authoritarian. Isn't nice either way. I call the same thing to our precious Chavez' nemesis Mr.Originally Posted by Soulforged
WunclerBush: authoritarian [bad-person]. Both act well enough in the existing channels of authority -- somewhat; both expand their governments' (and their own) power in a way that I simply don't like.
To me authoritarian doesn't mean going out of the way of the law -- as seems to be your definition -- it means governing/ruling "excessively." Giuliani, the US Presidential candidate, is often called "authoritarian;" as far as I'm aware he didn't really go outside of the law, but rather that his style of "leadership" is controlling...expansive?
For breaking the law in pursuit of power, I prefer the classical term "tyrant."
Tribesman: While you're right that it really is just term limits, and in your example Great Britain (with its reliance on traditions and an "honor system" over written constitutions) doesn't apparently has one, the difference between Gordon Brown and Hugo Chavez is that the latter is trying to remove the existing limits while the former didn't do anything about, well, anything.
I'm also interested in what you have to say about our favorite South American leader's faults. You seem to dismiss the mainstream US/International media's attack as relentlessly pathetic -- but with the caveat that the man himself is full of real flaws they fail to touch. It'd be great if you'd enlighten us what you think are those real flaws. Idiotic economic decisions? Certain populist tendencies? Etc. I'm not informed and my google-fu sucks, so indulge me there.![]()
how come you're back to junior member again???
K COSSACK: That the rather infamous coup d'etat attempt some few years ago against Mr. Chavez was backed by the USA is quite well known. If he really thinks the CIA wants him dead I don't blame him: true or not, he has good reasons to fear. They tried to kill Castro how many times...?
Del Arroyo: The attempt to equate Chavez with Hitler benefits no one IMO. Well, except the rebellious Venezuelan "media."
Last edited by AntiochusIII; 08-09-2007 at 04:50.
I think Tribesman's biggest problem is that Chavez isn't socialist enough.
errrrr...that makes no sense... dont need weapons if ya dont need a war...![]()
Now then lets put it simply ...Venezuela is this country rightit has an army which has weapons right
one of its usual suppliers of weaponry is refusing to sell it any weapons , upgrades and spare parts right
that means a new stock of weapons must be purchased right
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One funny turn of events from that was Americas blocking of a european sale because it used US tech , so Venezuela had to buy the purely European version , which happened to be better , so much better in fact that the US is now buying it instead of its own version
Errrr...Cossak are you familiar with history at all ?@ tribesman... what bullox? that hugo chavez isnt dellusional? paranoid? thinking the CIA will assasinate him?
Damn I could have sworn that I called him a numb nuts , then again I guess that could translate as smart and wonderful .Thats great soul and tribes, hugo is a smart and wonderful leader lol
Shortly after President Von Hindenberg died, Germans voted in a plebiscite to confirm Hitler as "Fuhrer und Reichskanzler", with 85% "yeas".![]()
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Right , so at that time Del when here was a vote was germany a multi party democracy or a one party state ?
Soooo... not only going for a godwin moment but picking a weak one![]()
And for those of you who were wondering, heavy-handed intimidation of the press and partisan persecution and purging of opposition party members from all positions of power and authority do disqualify Mr. Chavez from the Democracy club...![]()
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oh that gem again , is bush disqualified from the democracy club ?
Well thats simple , he has many flaws , he is after all a politician and they do tend to be scumbags .I'm also interested in what you have to say about our favorite South American leader's faults. You seem to dismiss the mainstream US/International media's attack as relentlessly pathetic -- but with the caveat that the man himself is full of real flaws they fail to touch. It'd be great if you'd enlighten us what you think are those real flaws. Idiotic economic decisions? Certain populist tendencies? Etc. I'm not informed and my google-fu sucks, so indulge me there.
Mainly they concern some of his stupider economic and social policies , especially agriculture , the coffee issue is a prime example of a stupid policy for popular consumption by the masses .
The speed of and implementation of many of his policies is absolutely terrible , especially the land redistribution and the subsidised food shops .
His foriegn policy stinks , OK he has got some great trade deals but his blaming the US for everything and not wanting to be seen as doing business with the gringo donkey in the White House has cost him some good deals , then again the donkey in the White house has also cost Venezuela some good deals .
His switch to China and the far east is pretty sound , but that ain't gonna really pay off until the chinese have rebuilt the ports and he finishes the pipeline .
He did get a great deal in Iran , but given events unfolding in the middle east I don't think that is going to be too fruitfull, it was more of a case of doing the deal just to piss off America without thought for the medium term prospects .
Hmm... Our current Head of State is in for life without any elections at all, and our head of government can stay until his death, if he gets elected...
Does that disqualify us from the Democracy Club?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
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