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Thread: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22245585-2,00.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock eisteddfod entry pans Bush before APEC
    THE Federal Government has accused a high school of "hijacking" a major rock eisteddfod to protest against visiting US President George W.Bush at the APEC forum.

    The self-proclaimed "savage" performance piece depicts Mr Bush as the pilot of a crashing plane and attacks the US-led invasion of Iraq.

    In an embarrassing glitch for organisers, Mr Bush's early arrival at the international forum means he will be in time to catch the anti-Bush performance at the 2007 Rock Eisteddfod.

    The student performance piece Bad Knight II, conceived by Davidson High School teacher Kim Peade and featuring students as young as 12, is the sequel to the controversial Bad Night in Baghdad, which made headlines in 2004 for its overtly political theme.

    The timing of the production, to be shown at the grand final at the Sydney Entertainment Centre on September 6, is two days after President Bush is expected to arrive in Sydney.

    The five-part act opens with Mr Bush as the pilot of a plane about to crash, before going into a segment entitled I'll go anywhere to fight for oil to lubricate the red, white and blue.

    The third part features a group of women lamenting the deaths of their sons and husbands in Iraq. The fourth is entitled, Tell somebody, Repeal the Patriot Act and it closes with a performance to Pink's anti-Bush anthem, Dear Mr President.

    It will be performed by 99 students in Years 7 to 11 from the northern suburbs school, with a 20-student stage crew.

    Federal Education Minister Julie Bishop said the Rock Eisteddfod had been "hijacked by political activists".

    "Of particular concern is that this school performed an anti-Iraq war production in 2004 and there appears to be a political agenda at work, rather than a focus on healthy lifestyles," she said.

    NSW Opposition education spokesman Andrew Stoner said the performance would embarrass Sydney.

    "APEC is globally significant and should be seen by the Iemma Government as an opportunity to showcase Sydney instead of embarrassing residents with political activity aimed at visiting dignitaries," he said.

    Mr Peade acknowledged the piece was "savage", but made no apologies for the performance, saying it posed important questions about a war in which 3500 Americans have died.

    "While it starts with a particularly savage piece of satire, we go into the concept of the affront upon the people of America.

    "This is what he has done. He's made the decision to go into this thing and look at the mess they're in," Mr Peade said.

    The Education Department defended the production, saying it was an extra-curricula activity and formed no part of the school's academic program.
    Now, as much as I completely agree with the politics of this, I believe that a Public School should not do this, because it shouldn't be the place for political commentary. On the other hand, I have no opposition to where they are showing this. That is freedom of speech and if they want to say it, they should go ahead and do so.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    That's all? Here we had a play at a school where a politician was beheaded because of his lack of dhimmitude, how and why all in one.

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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    So these Rock Eisteddfod groups get between $2,500 and $8,500 of public money to stage 8 minutes of creative content - and this year, one group (school) wants to stage some anti-war content in their production.

    I don't see the problem, unless politicians want to dictate content-acceptability rules because of public funding ("he who pays the piper calls the tune" idea). That'd be a bad idea, IMO. Politicians should politik, teachers should teach.
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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    Now, as much as I completely agree with the politics of this, I believe that a Public School should not do this, because it shouldn't be the place for political commentary. On the other hand, I have no opposition to where they are showing this. That is freedom of speech and if they want to say it, they should go ahead and do so.
    I have no problem with this, I think its a good thing. The elementary school the next town over from me is planning a parade next week where the theme will be "death to Iran".

    Cant wait to have hundreds of screaming children marching up and down the streets chanting that theme. Ahhhhh the fresh scent of political freedom and free thought being imprinted onto young minds.

    Of course freedom of speech is the theme, not some political adgenda.

    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

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    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Freedom of speech, let them say what they like.
    #Hillary4prism

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    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    I don't really see the problem with this....

    People are supposed to have freedom of speech in public schools too, otherwise we'd have to shut down the Model Congress club at my school, the Students Against Destructive Decisions club, and all the other special interest clubs, like the gay and lesbian one, oh yeah and though my particular Model Congress definitely has a liberal slant if it was conservative it'd still need to be closed. It doesn't make much sense to condemn this anymore now does it?
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Does the freedom of speech crowd here feel the same way about Creationism plays? I do, but I'm just curious.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    I am not entirely sure about freedom of speech in this case. Are the students really expressing their opinion, or are they expressing their teacher's opinion?
    Considering that there are 12-year olds participating I have at least some doubts that the former is the case without exception.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    Does the freedom of speech crowd here feel the same way about Creationism plays? I do, but I'm just curious.
    Of course, evolution plays on the other hand...

    Australian newspapers are also allowed to publish anti-bush caricatures I guess, so why should these kids not be allowed to show an anti-bush play, though I have to say it sounds rather boring.


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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
    I am not entirely sure about freedom of speech in this case. Are the students really expressing their opinion, or are they expressing their teacher's opinion?
    Considering that there are 12-year olds participating I have at least some doubts that the former is the case without exception.
    ^--what he said

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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Is there any other concept that's evoked more often and more unnessesarily that 'Freedom of speech'? That is not a fruitful perspective to view this case from. Of course they have the freedom to say stage their play, freedom of speech only concerns itself with judicial limits, the limits of which are not even remotely challenged by this piece. Soon, I think, when I ask somebody whether they enjoyed a movie I will get the answer that the director has freedom of speech.

    Sorry, just a rant, not aimed at this thread or this topic in particular.

    As for this play: bah! Move to North Korea if indoctrination is your idea of being a teacher. Rather devote your time to handing these children the tools to think critically for themselves. What's the pleasure of hearing and seeing twelve-year olds ape your thoughts, to see them perform creepy plays that satisfy your political preference? Indctrinating dependent childrens minds is the weakest form of trying to shape to world according to your own preferences.

    Cowards, I still have a bad taste in my mouth from teachers like this that I had myself at school. At twelve, I understood what they where doing, at fourteen, I was able to resist them, at age sixteen they weren't even a match for me anymore. Bunch of losers.

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    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Ahaha. I find this all quite comical. How on earth did this make (inter?)national news?

    The Modern Studies course, which is effectively teaches us to support the Social Democratic parties, or generally anything on the centre-left to far-left.

    Political views are always a major part of state school things here. My Rector makes it plain that he is a proponent of separatism. The only political magazine in the School Library is The Scots Independent (SNP Newspaper) and the only national newspaper The Independent. Political views are invariably written into the School Pantomimes.
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
    I am not entirely sure about freedom of speech in this case. Are the students really expressing their opinion, or are they expressing their teacher's opinion?
    That's the catch

    Apparently some of the Children said that it wasn't their opinion, just their teacher's.
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    The portion of the government money they get to help do the Eisteddfod is to help promote a healthy lifestyle (anti-smoking, alcohol and drug abuse), and is something the government has done to sponsor the TV specials to reach a younger audience, so they have put money in after it got popular... it is not the education department that funds this nor is it core curriculum ... while the plays can be about anything in itself... so if they (the Federal government) start trying to pull the money then it will go back to just be the commercial sponsors... and one of the primary ones ... is Coca-Cola
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    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm
    Ahaha. I find this all quite comical. How on earth did this make (inter?)national news?

    Exactly why do these Aussie's still care?

    protests have been going on and on since the Iraq war and foreign people still dont get it, you cant control the US government. Cant they go on with their lives and be glad its not them who are getting shot at...

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by K COSSACK
    Exactly why do these Aussie's still care?

    protests have been going on and on since the Iraq war and foreign people still dont get it, you cant control the US government. Cant they go on with their lives and be glad its not them who are getting shot at...
    Protests have been going on in your country. This is our country. I find your tone to be condescending and slightly offensive. I am allowed to have my own opinions on anything I like and I shouldn't have to put up with your condescention to have them.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Well I'm glad so many support the right of a teacher to manipulate and use children for his own political purposes.

    What a baby the teacher is too - apparently so filled with hate for the leader of a far off country he has write a play where he is condescendingly telling Americans how to think and what to do.

    He is not educating these children and is doing the very opposite of helping to teach them how to think critically for themselves. How would you feel if he were having these children do a play on how great Bush is?

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    Protests have been going on in your country. This is our country. I find your tone to be condescending and slightly offensive. I am allowed to have my own opinions on anything I like and I shouldn't have to put up with your condescention to have them.
    You skin is pretty thin if you get offended by that.


    Besides, he isn't saying you aren't allowed to have your own opinions, he is saying he thinks it's pointless that you protest because you won't accomplish anything. I don't find his post condescending in the least bit, maybe ill informed though.



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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    It was condescending the way he said "these Aussie's" and "Cant they go on with their lives". I wasn't offended, I was just trying to find a way to say what was going through my head in a more sophisticated way.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    And, for the record, Australia has 1,500+ troops in Iraq. So
    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    be glad its not them who are getting shot at...
    holds exactly zero water.
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    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan
    And, for the record, Australia has 1,500+ troops in Iraq. So


    holds exactly zero water.
    So tell me where I said "students get shot at".

    you take offence to being called Aussie? well I never knew.

    But my opinion still stands wether people lighten up or not. And yeah thats your country think for yourselves, ask your leader to pull your troops out not ours.

    nuff said...

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by K COSSACK
    Exactly why do these Aussie's still care?
    Because we are part of the coalition, and our PM has been one of the most ardent supporters of the War on Terrorism outside of the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by K COSSACK
    protests have been going on and on since the Iraq war and foreign people still dont get it, you cant control the US government.
    The mini-me protest is aimed at embarrassing the Australian Federal government into action. The statement reeks of hypocrisy when the protest is against the coalition performing regieme change that other countries cannot have an opinion about the governments performing the change. "We can invade a country and change its government, but if you want to democratically protest that you can't!" Pull your head out, mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by K COSSACK
    Cant they go on with their lives and be glad its not them who are getting shot at...
    Could you clarify that statement, it comes across more as a threat that we should be glad that the US isn't shooting at us
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    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    It help to read the other posts too

    So tell me where I said "students get shot at".

    you take offence to being called Aussie? well I never knew.

    But my opinion still stands wether people lighten up or not. And yeah thats your country think for yourselves, ask your leader to pull your troops out not ours.

    nuff said...


    Clarify anything? like to complain to your own government now?

    I mean people if you want to change things write to your prime minister or join the army and try to destroy all the terrorists our leader and your leaders deems..well..terrorizing.
    Last edited by Boyar Son; 08-16-2007 at 01:40.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    You know the irony is that although Australia is a constitutional monarchy we are not as hierarchal bound as the US. Just because our PM says something does not mean we take it as gospel. We don't say yes sir to our bosses, and we speak back to them... if they say something dumb we explain it to them why it is. Our leaders are human and just as prone to mistakes as the rest of us, so we take what they say with a grain of salt.

    So no I don't think the situation is so black and white that I either protest against it or go off to war in support of it. Nor if I even agree with the WoT do I have to agree with decreasing Freedoms for Security... 'Hey guys the terrorists are going to take away your freedoms, so we will give you security in exchange for your freedoms' 'Hey those laws that you have used for centuries, well who needs evidence in the face of fear?', nor do I have to respect the priority of the target nations nor the way it is handled.
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    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Congratulations for not believing in not trading freedom for security.

    But I hope I made it clear the futility outside protest have become about the war. We must find other ways to protest, a way where we can show people why we must stop doing what we are doing instead of...

    "Mr Bush as the pilot of a plane about to crash, before going into a segment entitled I'll go anywhere to fight for oil to lubricate the red, white and blue. "

    holding up a sign with "Bush iz teh nAzi" and screaming out insults about where he is from will not get you respect and heard, it will only... get you a pat on the back from your fellow worthless hippies... but will only make you look like an idiot, like this girl

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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    You know the irony is that although Australia is a constitutional monarchy we are not as hierarchal bound as the US. Just because our PM says something does not mean we take it as gospel.
    Now now, isnt Mr Howard in his 4th or 5th term? So the limited hierarcal system you all have may not be as grand as ours clearly his gospel has been enough for a long run.

    We don't say yes sir to our bosses, and we speak back to them... if they say something dumb we explain it to them why it is.
    So you tell them they are wrong and explain why what they said was dumb? Wonderful system there, I'd love a go at it but somehow I think you might be embelishing a touch?

    So no I don't think the situation is so black and white that I either protest against it or go off to war in support of it. Nor if I even agree with the WoT do I have to agree with decreasing Freedoms for Security... 'Hey guys the terrorists are going to take away your freedoms, so we will give you security in exchange for your freedoms' 'Hey those laws that you have used for centuries, well who needs evidence in the face of fear?', nor do I have to respect the priority of the target nations nor the way it is handled.
    Good enough, with the cavaet that this is the laws/institutions you chose. I mean Howard couldnt have been outed as this month was he? K COSSACK I think might not have realized that others are invested in the war on terror a great deal.

    In the U.S. what we get from the outside world is constant criticism to the point where we would prefer that if this wasnt the outcome you all desired then by all means move on (IE Spain, Italy).

    Sadly he didnt extend his appreciation for the sacrafices made by Australlia. There a great friend and I for one appreciate them as a nation that stood by mine. However if your all tired, protest as loud as you like but step up and take a bit of the responsibility for the choices made.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 08-16-2007 at 07:55.
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    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Thanks Australia for helping us in Iraq

    But the students their should give it a rest. A protest play? sheesh write to ur leader instead.

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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by CA
    protests have been going on and on since the Iraq war and foreign people still dont get it, you cant control the US government. Cant they go on with their lives and be glad its not them who are getting shot at...
    They certainly can.






    As to outside protests in general against America, try to see it from this perspective: it is not America and Australia that went into Iraq. It is America that went to war, with Australia supporting it. That is the crucial bit, the assymetry. That is why Australians are protesting against Bush instead of Americans protesting against Howard. (Howard who? Of where? You mean he's the president of Australia then?)
    Washington decides about Australian lives, not the other way round. Hence Australians protest at the American president if they disagree. It is not about controlling the US. It is protesting against decisions that will affect Australians. America has by default, by its sheer size and weight, a tremendous impact on Australia - which is, and this is often misunderstood as well, also not the same as trying 'to control' Australia.
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Now now, isnt Mr Howard in his 4th or 5th term? So the limited hierarcal system you all have may not be as grand as ours clearly his gospel has been enough for a long run.
    Because the opposition have failed to present an electable alternative, except in his first election race. BTW this is his 4th Term, with an election probably in November.

    So you tell them they are wrong and explain why what they said was dumb? Wonderful system there, I'd love a go at it but somehow I think you might be embelishing a touch?
    Oh we tell them it is wrong. People explain why. They just don't listen...

    However if your all tired, protest as loud as you like but step up and take a bit of the responsibility for the choices made.
    A newspoll was taken a few weeks back that showed that the majority of Australians don't support the war. Many never did. I don't see why we should have to take responsibility for actions we didn't choose. I am openly critical of our Government very often and I believe that Iraq has been a debacle that never should have happened. Why should I have feel that I have a responsibility towards keeping this war running.

    But the students their should give it a rest. A protest play? sheesh write to ur leader instead.
    They didn't write it, their teacher did.

    As to outside protests in general against America, try to see it from this perspective: it is not America and Australia that went into Iraq. It is America that went to war, with Australia supporting it. That is the crucial bit, the assymetry. That is why Australians are protesting against Bush instead of Americans protesting against Howard. (Howard who? Of where? You mean he's the president of Australia then?)
    Washington decides about Australian lives, not the other way round. Hence Australians protest at the American president if they disagree. It is not about controlling the US. It is protesting against decisions that will affect Australians. America has by default, by its sheer size and weight, a tremendous impact on Australia - which is, and this is often misunderstood as well, also not the same as trying 'to control' Australia.
    Hit the nail on the head. (BTW - John Howard is our Prime Minister. We don't have a President.)
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  30. #30
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    So you tell them they are wrong and explain why what they said was dumb? Wonderful system there, I'd love a go at it but somehow I think you might be embelishing a touch?
    Not at all, I've worked in mining with international companies (with Americans) and in IT for and with American companies.

    When (as in not all the time) they say something dumb (and bosses and employees do both) we are not expected to keep quiet... we aren't expected to say that it is dumb in front of clients, but we are expected to make sure that a project doesn't go ahead based on opinion. We had an American manager state "I am the boss, you are the resource and you will do exactly as I tell you." this despite the course of action he wanted would not have meet the scope of the engagement nor would it have made the client happy. He also would refer to all his superiors as sir and expected his subordinates to do the same... something that we don't do out of school or the military here.

    The guys from stateside were certainly far more specialized and rigid in their approach to both IT and hierarchy... with variation from state to state it seemed... get along very well with the Texans... I found it ironic that it was the Hawaiian that was most rigid (but in fairness he was a) ex-airforce and b) next home was in Florida for his retirement)... generally it was more relaxed with the West Coasters, as for the ex-military guys the green berets and marines seemed to be far more relaxed in civilian life then the air force guys... the most relaxed and laid back guy I have ever met (from any country) was an ex-US army vet from Vietnam who could drink anyone I know under the table (when Kafir posts, its this guys face that pops into my mind).

    In general I found a lot of the American's just more rigid in employee-boss relations compared with the way Aussies, Kiwis and Brits approach the same dynamics.
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