2 Greek questions

**Son of Perun** · 08-15-2007, 21:18

At first I would like to say thanks for the great mod (I haven`t played any other game after I tried EB). The first question is about Iphilkratous hoplitai. As far as I know, Iphilkrates created these hoplites from peltasts by adding 3m spear to their equipment. They should have been able to chase light units as well as hold off hoplites with classical equipment. How come that in EB they are not even able to chase classical hoplites?! The second question: Will there ever be a reform for KH? Because many Greek cities changed their style of warfare in EB timeframe (for example Sparta started using sarissas in 203).

**abou** · 08-15-2007, 21:21

I'm not prepared to answer all those questions, but I can tell you that the Spartans started using the sarissa long before 203. There were Spartan phalangites at Sellasia in 222.

**mcantu** · 08-15-2007, 21:32

Where can you adjust how fast a unit runs?

**Rundownloser** · 08-15-2007, 21:54

Originally Posted by Son of Perun

Will there ever be a reform for KH?

It never crossed my mind before, but now I'm really excited about this prospect. That and the agoge system could really make the Greeks a "need-to-play" faction for me.

**Son of Perun** · 08-16-2007, 07:13

Originally Posted by abou

I'm not prepared to answer all those questions, but I can tell you that the Spartans started using the sarissa long before 203. There were Spartan phalangites at Sellasia in 222.

Sorry, that should`ve been 230, not 203.

**Bootsiuv** · 08-16-2007, 07:16

Personally, I would like to see as many reforms as possible. Things like that and missions (although I've never done one) make EB stand out from the rest.

**geala** · 08-16-2007, 12:19

In MTW the speed of troops can be changed in the export_descr_unit file (somewhere near the end of the lines). I don't know wether this is the same for RTW/EB.

Iphikrates did not give spears to peltasts but lightened some equipment of hoplites and gave them longer spears (Diodoros and Nepos said so). One modern theory I have read argues that first he had marines for naval warfare in mind; during landing operations the new hoplites performed well, so were used on land too (sounds interesting but I'm not sure wether I'm convinced).

Iphikratic hoplites should be able to stand against normal hoplites because of the longer spears. I doubt a bit that they should be able to chase hoplites however; it was certainly not so easy to run with a spear of perhaps 3,5 metres lenght.

**adishee** · 08-16-2007, 12:30

First, I think* the Iphilkrates Hoplitai have better stamina, would this not be a reflection of their lighter equipment? I doubt they could chase much with that unwieldy spear... keep some Ekdromoi around for that.

Second, seems to me that an official reform is unnecessary. EB has provided a contingency to go either way! For example, you can revert to a totally classical Hoplite/skirmisher setup, or go the completely opposite way and hire out an all Philangate/Thessalonian army (you can buy them anywhere in the Greek world). Or you can mix and match with anything in between, with the multitude of late-Greek military concepts that were never fleshed out (Greek legionary imitations, Thorakitai, etc). The Spartan philangates you are referring to, I believe, were absolutely nothing to behold, as Spartan military prowess had by that time declined to nothing, so really, why have a reform for it? You can already build any kind of Greek army you could ever imagine, and role-play it too.

**Puupertti Ruma** · 08-16-2007, 14:51

Originally Posted by cmlax999

First, I think* the Iphilkrates Hoplitai have better stamina, would this not be a reflection of their lighter equipment? I doubt they could chase much with that unwieldy spear... keep some Ekdromoi around for that.

Actually, according to Arkatredes' unit cards, classical hoplites have better stamina than Iphikratous hoplitai.

I personally think IHs' description is a little contradicting, as they are said to be made lighter and thus more agile and manoeuvarable compared to classical hoplites, but in gameterms they use vanilla phalanx formation which is slow as hell and have less stamina too.

Originally Posted by geala

In MTW the speed of troops can be changed in the export_descr_unit file (somewhere near the end of the lines). I don't know wether this is the same for RTW/EB.

I think I read from somewhere that you had to edit the skeletons of a unit to make it move faster. So in otherwords it would be a bit bigger undertaking than just little text editing.

**Thaatu** · 08-16-2007, 17:30

Didn't "classical hoplites" go through a reform of their own, or was that before Iphicrates?

**adishee** · 08-17-2007, 01:47

Originally Posted by Puupertti Ruma

Actually, according to Arkatredes' unit cards, classical hoplites have better stamina than Iphikratous hoplitai.

I personally think IHs' description is a little contradicting, as they are said to be made lighter and thus more agile and manoeuvarable compared to classical hoplites, but in gameterms they use vanilla phalanx formation which is slow as hell and have less stamina too.

Hmm. That is a bit annoying, maybe that should be clarified. I agree with their decision for vanilla Phalanx setting, though. Historically there were a sort of precursor to Phalangates, Philip could have copied them from Thebes, he was certainly at least influenced. I don't think RTW can illustrate a lance/sarrisa effect without the Phalanx setting, and as to their slow movement, you can always take them out of Phalanx mode and chase. Wish they did add some more stamina, but perhaps they have less than a classical because the Phalanx effect also seems to cause the formation to conserve HUGE amounts of stamina if it is left completely defensive.

Can a dev enlighten us?