CBC Documentary proves Benny Hinn is a fraud

[Navaros]

Tonight I watched a documentary on CBC which proves Benny Hinn is a complete fraud who scams ~$200 million or more per year from desperate people who he misleads.

Apparently this documentary is a couple of years old, so some of you may have seen it before.

I was shocked that Benny Hinn is allowed to commit such flagrant acts of fraud and no legal clampdown ever comes down on him. And others like him who do the same thing.

I did a websearch about the documentary after watching the documentary and the good news is that the documentary is available online for anyone to watch for free. If you are interested in seeing Benny Hinn exposed for the fraud he is then I highly recommend you click the link and watch the documentary.


http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/main_miracles.html

When is society going to start throwing fraudsters like Benny Hinn in jail?

[Lemur]

For the curious, here's the wiki on Benny Hinn.

[Papewaio]

A fool and his money are soon parted. + Its a fool's paradise.

= Therefore paradise is the ability to part with ones money.

[Navaros]

A lot of Hinn's victims are not fools, just desperate. It's easy to have one's judgement clouded by false hope if one has a terminal illness and the only one providing any sort of answer to it is Benny Hinn.

The fact that Hinn is allowed to get away with fraud all over the world on an epic scale also gives him "credibility" and makes it easier for a desperate person to believe that his fraud is legitimate.

The real fools are lawmakers who purposely allow desperate people to be defrauded by Hinn and others like him.

[Papewaio]

Lawmakers rely on the same people to get elected...

[Whacker]

Warning: Potentially unpopular opinion follows.

Religion is a service and a tool. It's a service in that it (generally) sells someone a "feelgood", and there are often no tangible goods that change hands. "I will go to heaven when I die and be with my family." "There is a God(s) who are watching over us and care about us." It sells peace of mind and provides a reason for happiness and purpose in life. It's not a non-profit charity folks. As such, it should be taxed just like any other good or service out there.

This man (and all of the other mass preachers out there) in my view are frauds and do nothing but make money on other's insecurities and gullibility. I don't need to tithe 10% of my annual income to the church, otherwise the ministers and others will guilt-trip me into doing so. (I'm speaking figuratively, am an agnostic atheist) I don't need to donate $100 or so to a service that's sole goal is to preach to others and 'spread the faith' via huge costly travelling concert style shows. It's my firm belief that people give money to these folks for selfish reasons, because they feel good and 'right' about doing so and think that they're buying a bit of their way into their respective heavens and 'atoning' for some sins by doing so.

/shrug

[Lemur]

The unfortunate truth is that people get a little irrational when it comes to faith. And you cannot approach religious seriously unless you are willing to abandon some reason, hence the word "faith."

People who attempt to "prove" faith using logic or science always strike me as a bit sad. Chesterton had the best take on the subject:

"The whole secret of mysticism is this: that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else become lucid."

So just by having faith, we allow ourselves to be a little irrational. And everybody knows there's no good trait that doesn't become a fatal weakness if we overindulge, as some people do with religion.

Unfortunately, faith is used and abused by people such as Hinn; this should not surprise. Even more unfortunately, con men have a wide audience, since there are so many believers who take the leap of faith and extend it into a free-fall without a parachute. You wind up with situations where, as one poster on another forum put it, "You could fill a chamber with cyanide gas, call it a 'Jesus Sauna,' and I guarantee people would scream to get in." Heck, just look at the pathetic vogue in suicide bombing among Sunni extremists to see this hypothesis made flesh.

The trick is moderation, and some people are incapable of it. And yes, this means they are wide-open targets for whatever con man happens by.

[macsen rufus]

Sheesh - a fraudulent televangelist.... What's the next big news? Ursine faeces in an arboreal zone?

They're ALL cons, some just get away with it longer.

[Ja'chyra]

But should we legislate for this at all, can you legislate for stupidity?

I think, like I usually do, that you should pay for your own mistakes and if you give all your money to some guy who says he can cure you by praying then you deserve to lose it. Where it gets more complicated is when it involves someone who is not mentally equipped to make those kind of decisions.

We want to get away from this

[Ronin]

Sheesh - a fraudulent televangelist.... What's the next big news? Ursine faeces in an arboreal zone?

They're ALL cons, some just get away with it longer.

now that´s sig material right there!!

110% agreed

[Devastatin Dave]

One thing that Christianity teaches is that God gives you free will. So if these "desperate" people give money to this guy, then guess what, they are doing it by God's design. Nav, you are stepping in front of God's design. I suggest you pray for your lack of faith in God's design...

Better yet, realise that the fear of the nothingness of death can never be filled with fairy tales of guys nailed to crosses, robbers robbing, murdering, and raping innocent people in the name of a moon god, or any fat bald guys that you rub their bellys for good luck. You're hear on this earth by way of a certain distance from the sun and you only exist by pure circumstance. Go have a beer, get laid, and keep your money to yourself.

[Odin]

One thing that Christianity teaches is that God gives you free will. So if these "desperate" people give money to this guy, then guess what, they are doing it by God's design. Nav, you are stepping in front of God's design. I suggest you pray for your lack of faith in God's design...

I always was curious as to how those who accept religion make the seperation from "gods will" to "they did this to me". odd how God becomes such a convience dependent on circumstance and rarely and absolute.

[Devastatin Dave]

I always was curious as to how those who accept religion make the seperation from "gods will" to "they did this to me". odd how God becomes such a convience dependent on circumstance and rarely and absolute.

Thats why the next time I get a warning I'm going to tell them its God's will that I posted what I posted and if they warn me they are going against god's will and that they are being intolerant to my beliefs. I bet it'll work great...

[Odin]

Thats why the next time I get a warning I'm going to tell them its God's will that I posted what I posted and if they warn me they are going against god's will and that they are being intolerant to my beliefs. I bet it'll work great...

Careful Dave. I have to admit I dont know the difference between warnings and alerts. I get PM's requesting changes in tone but I dont think I have actually ever been officially warned just alerted.

But being chumy with you dosent bode well for my stellar record.

[Devastatin Dave]

Careful Dave. I have to admit I dont know the difference between warnings and alerts. I get PM's requesting changes in tone but I dont think I have actually ever been officially warned just alerted.

But being chumy with you dosent bode well for my stellar record.

Good point. I'm like a hot chick with herpes; I'm fun to bang, just only when I'm not flaring up.
Don't worry about agreeing with me on occasion, that's why they have disinfectant and therapy.

[Navaros]

But should we legislate for this at all, can you legislate for stupidity?

Of course any and all forms of fraud - including the many grievous acts of fraud perpetuated by Benny Hinn - should be illegal.

A normal, intelligent person could reasonably presume that since fraud is supposed to be illegal, yet Benny Hinn is allowed to commit fraud day and day out, year after year, decade after decade - that must mean what Benny Hinn is doing is not fraud. In addition to the aforementioned desperatoin angle which Hinn uses to cloud people's judgement. In addition to that Hinn has a very elaborate, clever scam going that tells very deliberate lies in order to appease an intelligent person's skepticism (ie: Hinn claims to verify every miracle with doctors and only air ones doctors confirm, yet in reality he never ever does any of that). In addition to many elderly viewers who he scams who don't have all their proper mental awareness due to their age.

That so many think people who give him money are "stupid" and that they "deserve" to be defrauded just because they got lured in by his scam, is very disenheartening.

I'm shocked about how the general consensus seems to be that scam victims deserve to be victimized and Benny Hinn deserves to be allowed to commit fraud with no legal consequences.

I don't understand this "Blame the victims, and let scammers keep scamming" mentality.

In regards to Dave's first post in this thread: I know you, Dave, usually try to have some sort of point in your posts although sometimes it's hard to figure out what it is. I have no idea what the point is in your first post, Dave, because I'm skeptical if you really believe that stuff you said in that post. If you could explain what the point is that you were trying to articulate in that post, that would be awesome.

[Devastatin Dave]

In regards to Dave's first post in this thread: I know you, Dave, usually try to have some sort of point in your posts although sometimes it's hard to figure out what it is. I have no idea what the point is in your first post, Dave, because I'm skeptical if you really believe that stuff you said in that post. If you could explain what the point is that you were trying to articulate in that post, that would be awesome.

I have renounced my faith but still retain many of the teachings of the historical Jesus. This will probably cause quite a confilct in anything I say to you and will like wise be hard for you to understand what I'm trying answer in the quoted post above. He (Jesus) preached often about the will of God and the will of man. Is it not by choice that you believe in the salvation through Jesus? So it is by choice that we also make bad decisions like giving money to these theological frauds like Hinn, Jim Baker, etc. Choice is by God's own design. If you try to "do something" about frauds and pharisies like this guy you are going against God's design for man. So, my point was that you personally should turn your eyes from such peopl for they a false to your faith, but at the same time that should be a personal choice and not one regulated in order to keep stupid people from "choosing" to send their money.

As for the second part of my post I believe that belief systems based on "faith" tend to be ingrained by fear of death, hell, or some other mental anguish tapping on the most inner feelings of our unconcious. My suggestion was to just accept what life is. I guess I will find out the truth when I pass on as we all will. I just have my doubts that I will be sweeping the floors of heaven or stroking the coals of hell. I believe I will slip into a complete nothingness and all that i ever was or going to be will be an empty void that my mind cannot comprehend. So there is no needs to fill it with fairy tails of spleded palaces and angels singing on the wings of eagles.

[macsen rufus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by macsen rufus
Sheesh - a fraudulent televangelist.... What's the next big news? Ursine faeces in an arboreal zone?

They're ALL cons, some just get away with it longer.


now that´s sig material right there!!

110% agreed

Yay! My first "sig material" citation

But I was also tempted by:

Go have a beer, get laid, and keep your money to yourself.

[Aurelian]

There was a great documentary on HBO a few years back that examined what was going on during faith healings. It was called "A Question of Miracles", and it followed people who had supposedly been 'healed' by Benny Hinn and other faith healers to see how they did after they left the sermon. The short-version: not so good. The ecstatic state that people can enter into at a faith healing event can block pain temporarily. So, those people with chronic pain issues will be able to get up and walk around, etc. The human brain can be stimulated to release pain-blocking opiates under the right conditions. However, those who are healed are right back in the wheelchair once their high wears off. Those who have serious conditions (like cancer) and think they can be healed by people like Benny Hinn usually end up dead.

One of the stories they followed in the documentary was a family with a critically ill child who were giving huge amounts of money to Benny Hinn Ministries for prayer and faith healings. Amazingly, after their child died, the couple continued handing over their money. They were too emotionally invested at that point to 'not believe'.

The documentary also looked into a "God Helmet" that could create religious experiences by stimulating parts of the brain. Cool stuff.

I haven't been able to find a link to the documentary itself, but here is a CNN transcript interview with the filmmaker.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../15/sm.13.html

[Navaros]

IIf you try to "do something" about frauds and pharisies like this guy you are going against God's design for man. So, my point was that you personally should turn your eyes from such peopl for they a false to your faith, but at the same time that should be a personal choice and not one regulated in order to keep stupid people from "choosing" to send their money.

So then would you suggest also to get rid of all laws that society has, since they too are infringing on God's design of choice for man? If not, why are acts of fraud exceptions to this principle but not everything else too?

[Don Corleone]

A lot of Hinn's victims are not fools, just desperate. It's easy to have one's judgement clouded by false hope if one has a terminal illness and the only one providing any sort of answer to it is Benny Hinn.

The fact that Hinn is allowed to get away with fraud all over the world on an epic scale also gives him "credibility" and makes it easier for a desperate person to believe that his fraud is legitimate.

The real fools are lawmakers who purposely allow desperate people to be defrauded by Hinn and others like him.

You know, Navaros, we haven't always seen eye to eye. But I'm genuinely touched by the compassion you show for Benny Hinn's victims, something I happen to share. You're right, they're not fools. God forbid, if any of my children ever came down with a terminal illness, there isn't anything I wouldn't give to somebody who promised they could and would help. And you're right, he should be prosecuted. Not for soliciting donations, anybody can do that. But for misrepresenting the facts and claiming miracles that didn't really happen with his cheap theatrics.

As for who the fool really is... I'd say it's Hinn himelf. All I have to say is I wouldn't want to be in his shoes on judgement day. I don't know if God has a heirarchy of sins or not (depends on how you reconcile several different passages in which Jesus seems to have different views on the matter), but I will say if anybody has ever turned from their faith in God because of Benny Hinn, Jesus is patently clear on that... better that they were never born.

[Don Corleone]

I have renounced my faith but still retain many of the teachings of the historical Jesus. This will probably cause quite a confilct in anything I say to you and will like wise be hard for you to understand what I'm trying answer in the quoted post above. He (Jesus) preached often about the will of God and the will of man. Is it not by choice that you believe in the salvation through Jesus? So it is by choice that we also make bad decisions like giving money to these theological frauds like Hinn, Jim Baker, etc. Choice is by God's own design. If you try to "do something" about frauds and pharisies like this guy you are going against God's design for man. So, my point was that you personally should turn your eyes from such peopl for they a false to your faith, but at the same time that should be a personal choice and not one regulated in order to keep stupid people from "choosing" to send their money.

As for the second part of my post I believe that belief systems based on "faith" tend to be ingrained by fear of death, hell, or some other mental anguish tapping on the most inner feelings of our unconcious. My suggestion was to just accept what life is. I guess I will find out the truth when I pass on as we all will. I just have my doubts that I will be sweeping the floors of heaven or stroking the coals of hell. I believe I will slip into a complete nothingness and all that i ever was or going to be will be an empty void that my mind cannot comprehend. So there is no needs to fill it with fairy tails of spleded palaces and angels singing on the wings of eagles.

Dave, that's a crock. Regardless of whether you've kept your faith or not, you have no right to misrepresent the teachings of Jesus to those here in the Backroom that may not know any better.

Jesus never said "Everything that happens to you is God's will, so just learn to deal with it". If that's the case, why did He resurrect Lazarus? Why did He cure people? Hell, why did he save Mary Magdelane from a stoning, and then tell her to quit prostituting herself after He had (after all, her selling herself would be God's will, according to your logic).

I've been active in several different churches with varying theological viewpoints. I've never heard anybody get up at the pulpit and say "Learn to deal with it, suckers", or any variant.

God does not tell you to endure sinners and just learn to take it. Part of learning to 'mature in faith' is learning to accept that you can't control and change everything, but that doesn't mean you run in autopilot. If I decide to give my life over to God, then quit working, it wasn't God's will that the bank foreclose on my house, it was my own laziness.

Yes, we have free will. We can chose to love God and try to make Him happy with us, or we can choose to say "screw it, it doesn't matter anyway". But if we make the latter choice, that's not God's will. Regardless of which choice we make, pain and suffering are never God's will and if you ever really did believe, you should know better, regardless of what you currently believe.

[Banquo's Ghost]

As for who the fool really is... I'd say it's Hinn himelf. All I have to say is I wouldn't want to be in his shoes on judgement day. I don't know if God has a heirarchy of sins or not (depends on how you reconcile several different passages in which Jesus seems to have different views on the matter), but I will say if anybody has ever turned from their faith in God because of Benny Hinn, Jesus is patently clear on that... better that they were never born.

Simoniacs get the eighth circle of Hell, damn near the very bottom, and go head first into burrows in the rock, with their feet set on fire. Perhaps even more horrible as fates go, they have to put up with the knowledge that their near neighbours are the corrupt politicians.

[Don Corleone]

Simoniacs get the eighth circle of Hell, damn near the very bottom, and go head first into burrows in the rock, with their feet set on fire. Perhaps even more horrible as fates go, they have to put up with the knowledge that their near neighbours are the corrupt politicians.

Simony is bad, and something all organized religions would do well to watch out for. But I'm actually talking about those who in a position of authority within the church cause people to abandon their faith in Jesus.

1Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3So watch yourselves.
"If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

And I'm having a hard time remembering the exact passage, but when Jesus talked about the responsiblity of spiritual authority, He said that anyone who, in a position of spiritual authority (i.e. Christ's representatives) cause somebody to turn away from Christ, it would be better for them that they were never born (which, if I remember correctly, was the ultimate Hebrew curse in Jesus's day).

[Devastatin Dave]

Dave, that's a crock. Regardless of whether you've kept your faith or not, you have no right to misrepresent the teachings of Jesus to those here in the Backroom that may not know any better.
.

I have every right to discuss MY interpitation of anything I want regardless of what you think or believe. Its "god's" will to have these people getting ripped off by Mr Hinn because he controls everything right? Or does your bible read differently than mine. Maybe, I don't, and I don't care. Call it a crock if you want, but when you have a belief that someone popped out of a virgin, raised dead people, walked on water, turned water to wine, was nailed to a cross, died, then came back to life three days later, then flew away to heaven, I wouldn't go around telling people what they say is a crock too much. Thanks for playing anyway....

[Don Corleone]

Laugh at my beliefs all you want. You forgot the really juicy ones to skewer me with... "believes that a wafer and a swig of wine turn into flesh and blood, and then drinks and eats them anyways..." "thinks that if he crawls into a dark room and tells a priest what he did wrong, it's all okay", and I've got plenty more if you want to take a few more shots.

I do take exception however when you misrepresent dominant Christian theology. I have attended services in on a regular basis (once a week for a minimum of 4 months) in Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Baptist, Methodist, evangelical/non-denominational and back to Roman Catholic again. Now, granted, I haven't actually checked out Eastern Orthodox, but I'll 'take it on faith' that they're not that radically different.

I've never, ever heard it postulated that sin, misfortune and suffering are God's will. If you have, I'd like to know at what church (and Fred Phelps doesn't count). If it's YOUR interpretation, then be sure to present it as such. Don't imply that there's organized Christian churches that share your views unless you're prepared to offer some sort of information on how to contact these heretics mistaken souls.

[KafirChobee]

I found it amusing that Hinn was inspired by Kathryn Kuhlman. Back in the early 70's she had a TV show (way late nite in LA - everywhere probably) entitled "I Believe in Miracles" (she had a book of the same name), it was a riot. Of course, one had to be stoned to really enjoy it.

One episode that put all of us on the floor (laughed 'til it hust), she was interviewing a young Chicano and asked him to tell why he believed in miracles - he told this story of how he wanted a bike so he could get a paper-route to help his Mom financially. "And, how did God give you a miracle?", KK asked. "Oh", said the lad, "Walking home one day, the bike just suddenly was there for me." Praise, the Lord ... a miracle", says KK.

We all looked at one another - the kid stole a bike!

The majority of the miracles were people talking to KK, then coming back and telling what happened. Some were simple, others outrageous. Felt a true loss when she passed over - a source of laughter lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Kuhlman
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/kuhlman.htm

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/bhinn.html

Got a paper "prayer rug" in the mail a few years ago, think I sent it to my son . The letter covering how to use it explained that one should pray on it, then return the "rug" to the organization and the group there would pray over it for you (for a small fee of $10 an hour) - then your prayer ought to be answered in accordance with the amount spent praying for you.

Often wondered how many paper rugs were returned with tiths for praying for them.

Was another - with the face of Jesus on it. Of course one had to stare at the paper to be able to see JC - and then their prayer would be answered; again if they returned it with a tithe for praying.

Sounds to me like there are many enterprising Christian groups running scams of all sorts - hmmmmm .....