To Moima tou Megou Alexandrou

[Rundownloser]

whether or not the islamites actually destroyed the library they certainlyt destroyed any remnants of the culture which had maintained it.

1st off, "Islamites"?!

2nd, I think it's a little quick to blame the destruction of the "the culture" on Islam. Personally, I'm not a too keen on clear-cut definitions of culture; however, I think that if anybody is "at fault" for this it would probably be the Christian influence. It led to a lot of enmity to a lot of social upheaval and had a nasty anti-intellectualism strain, which in turn caused the destruction of many texts, especially from Greek and other ancient philosophers. If anything, the only reason why we have very much of any ancient Greek philosophy (namely Aristotle) is because it was preserved by said Islamites. Muslim philosophy during the golden age (roughly 8th to 15th centuries) was steeped in Greek philosophy. One could make a strong argument that more of this "culture" sustained by Muslim influence as opposed to destroyed.

[KARTLOS]

yes i agree that christianity had an incredibly diestructive effect on egypt - horrific in fact.
it is just my belief that following the islamic conquest egypt ceased to become a significant centre of culture. although the conversion to christiantiy had been fairly destructive, the egyptian "christian" cutlure that flourished afterwards was very rich. egypt was one of the centres of earlly christianity and alot of significant christian trends and traditions can indeed be said to have started there. furthermore the several elements of christianity can arguably be said to have derived from the religions of pagan egypt. what is more christainty was preached in coptic - a direct continuation of egypts rich culture.

following the islamic onslaught, the coptic language as gradually phased out. egyptains today see themselves as arabic and it is very hard to discern any link to their past.

i would argue that following the arabic invasion egypt has completely ceased to have any signifcant cultural output. for the last 1300 years, it has in the main been a money making outpost of somebody elses empire. i mean it was even dominated by a military elite made up of foreign "slaves" (mamluks) for a long period.
you only have to look at the country today to see what a sorry state it has become. it is just another arabic/islamic corrupt authoritarian regime. their most notable impact in the last 10 years is to have given us al quedas no2. i find it had to see them ever regaining a fraction of their former significance.

[Trax]

following the islamic onslaught, the coptic language as gradually phased out. egyptains today see themselves as arabic and it is very hard to discern any link to their past.

It took neary thousand years befor the coptic langage passed out of the dayly usage. And even today 10% of the population are copts.

[KARTLOS]

It took neary thousand years befor the coptic langage passed out of the dayly usage. And even today 10% of the population are copts.

yes i have afew coptic friends actually. within egypt they are a barely tolerated/abused minority.

i belive that egypt didnt become majority islamite until the 1200.

it is a shame- ther was a realy wasted opportunity with the crusades. controlling egypt was in all likelihood the only way to maintain long term power in the holy land.

i believe there was one or two attempts made at this (In particular the seventh crusade).

it is interesting to imagine how things might have turned out if there had been a conderted effort to return egypt to christendom.

[Rundownloser]

i would argue that following the arabic invasion egypt has completely ceased to have any signifcant cultural output.

Oh, like the political and social philosophy of Pan-Arabism, aka Arab Nationalism, which was pretty much the most important thing to hit the Middle East since European colonialism.

"Islamic onslaught"?! Excellent...

[Tiberius Nero]

"Islamic onslaught"?! Excellent...

I am sure he meant it as a compliment.

[KARTLOS]

Oh, like the political and social philosophy of Pan-Arabism, aka Arab Nationalism, which was pretty much the most important thing to hit the Middle East since European colonialism.

"Islamic onslaught"?! Excellent...

oh, what a fantastic philosophy that has turned out to be. that one goes down in the ledger as a net negative.

[Rundownloser]

oh, what a fantastic philosophy that has turned out to be. that one goes down in the ledger as a net negative.

Surprisingly enough not everything that has come out of the region has been made of sugar/spice/everything nice, but you suggested that the area "ceased to have any significant cultural output" and I showed you something from the area that has had significant cultural significance. Does this not disprove your assertion?

[KARTLOS]

yes i guess if you want to play with semantics i guess your right, i had meant a positive contribution though.

[Rundownloser]

yes i guess if you want to play with semantics i guess your right, i had meant a positive contribution though.

Its not just "semantics." I don't see how I was playing word games or using technicalities to my advantage by taking "what you said" as "what you meant."

Not every single element of Pan-Arabism is totally evil. Much like other political/social philosophies it has some good (political secularism, anti-colonialism, political/social independence, etc.) and some bad (too militant, sometimes too secularist, etc.).

In addition, I was under the impression that Egypt remained not only a center of education, but also important center of cultural exchange and trade. Hell, Egypt was the center of the Fatimid dynasty's power.

[Anastasios Helios]

yes i agree that christianity had an incredibly diestructive effect on egypt - horrific in fact.
it is just my belief that following the islamic conquest egypt ceased to become a significant centre of culture. although the conversion to christiantiy had been fairly destructive, the egyptian "christian" cutlure that flourished afterwards was very rich. egypt was one of the centres of earlly christianity and alot of significant christian trends and traditions can indeed be said to have started there. furthermore the several elements of christianity can arguably be said to have derived from the religions of pagan egypt. what is more christainty was preached in coptic - a direct continuation of egypts rich culture

following the islamic onslaught, the coptic language as gradually phased out. egyptains today see themselves as arabic and it is very hard to discern any link to their past...

Egypt lost that position after the Roman culture. Since then, Greeks, Romans, and Arabs have added to the Egyptian culture and helped make it what is is today. Undoubtly however, the Arabs have had the most significant influence. It happened across Northern Africa, everyone there today thinks that they're Arabs, though they are Berbers, Egyptians, Sudanese...etc.

[sgsandor]

I think egypt is pretty awesome. It has faults, like every country. It has some very strong points too. Egypt is and has been a land of ancient knowledge and will forever hold a place at least in my heart as a place of wonder.

[russia almighty]

All that I can say is I hope to God that The Persian Cataphract leaves something of you left behind .


Fact is I think thats him sharpening his ax .

[KARTLOS]

All that I can say is I hope to God that The Persian Cataphract leaves something of you left behind .


Fact is I think thats him sharpening his ax .

who me?

i didnt think the persian cataphract was a big fan of islam.

pan-arabism/arab nationalism on the other hand has always had a problem with persians.