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Excerpt: "Burns said the new aid to Israel, which currently receives $2.4 billion in annual military grants, would not be conditioned on diplomatic progress or concessions though "one of the major priorities for our government ... will be to help push forward a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians."
The United States, Burns said, considers "this $30 billion in assistance to Israel to be an investment in peace, in long-term peace -- peace cannot be made without strength."
Israel overhauled its armed forces since suffering surprise setbacks in last year's war with Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas."
I nearly laid a golden egg after reading this bit. We are giving them 30billion with no diplomatic conditions or concessions?
I've always been a somewhat angry person, i dont know maybe my mother didnt hold me enough but this is killing me.
We should be selling military equipment to Israel not giving it to them. This is just more and more bad foriegn policy by Bush and his admin. No money, no aid to anyone rebuild New Orleans first then we can send some crumbs to starving children all over the world and sing cumbayya (or however you spell it).
So does this mean we will be sending 30 billion to Abbas? Or is this 30Billion an aid a down payment on the intended results of a Israeli military strike on Iran?
Excerpt: "Burns said the new aid to Israel, which currently receives $2.4 billion in annual military grants, would not be conditioned on diplomatic progress or concessions though "one of the major priorities for our government ... will be to help push forward a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians."
The United States, Burns said, considers "this $30 billion in assistance to Israel to be an investment in peace, in long-term peace -- peace cannot be made without strength."
Israel overhauled its armed forces since suffering surprise setbacks in last year's war with Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas."
I nearly laid a golden egg after reading this bit. We are giving them 30billion with no diplomatic conditions or concessions?
I've always been a somewhat angry person, i dont know maybe my mother didnt hold me enough but this is killing me.
We should be selling military equipment to Israel not giving it to them. This is just more and more bad foriegn policy by Bush and his admin. No money, no aid to anyone rebuild New Orleans first then we can send some crumbs to starving children all over the world and sing cumbayya (or however you spell it).
So does this mean we will be sending 30 billion to Abbas? Or is this 30Billion an aid a down payment on the intended results of a Israeli military strike on Iran?
Israel will use the weapons in ways that the USA wants to be able to do, but can't. Be that assassinations, torture of people or just scaring the oil-rich Arab states.
Due to its position, Israel is always on a far more sensitive hair trigger to its action over a given event. And when disaster strikes there aren't even any body bags coming back to the USA! Put like this, it's a bargain.
Due to its position, Israel is always on a far more sensitive hair trigger to its action over a given event. And when disaster strikes there aren't even any body bags coming back to the USA! Put like this, it's a bargain.
$30 billion over the next decade. If Bush hadn't made any changes, we would have given them $24billion over the next decade. This isn't an extra $30 billion, we've bumped up how much we're giving them.
And truth be told, I think they're doing it just so the Democrats will vote it down. Then the administration turns around to Israel and says "Republican White House wanted to give you $3B a year, Democratic Congress cut the number to $2.4B... are you sure you don't want to encourage Jewish Americans to change parties?"
I mean, Bush had 4 years of a Republican Congress and White House to give Israel $10B a year if he really wanted to.
And truth be told, I think they're doing it just so the Democrats will vote it down. Then the administration turns around to Israel and says "Republican White House wanted to give you $3B a year, Democratic Congress cut the number to $2.4B... are you sure you don't want to encourage Jewish Americans to change parties?"
I mean, Bush had 4 years of a Republican Congress and White House to give Israel $10B a year if he really wanted to.
I dont care how much they would have gotten or why they are getting it now we shouldnt be giving anyone anything.
Let these incompetents run the show for a while, lets see how it turns out. Im all for selling people wares, line em up and to the highest bidder goes.... But this grant business (not to mention the egyptians and saudi's) is ridiculous.
This entire foriegn policy of handouts and intervention on some idealogical princinpal of freedom for all has run its course... I mean enough already, let em find thier own way through the valley. You would think given the level of faith in that part of the world god would have shown up already and sorted it all out.
Instead we have give aways and freebies, its like a freakin game show at this point. "And behind curtain 2 you get 15 F-15 strike eagles ! Oh and for the poor sods that picked curtain 1 you get 2 years of shipments of M-15 assault rifles"
And this is in our strategic intrest how? How the hell is arming these idiot religous freaks going to help the U.S. ? The only positive outcome I can come up with is somewhere some one did a "wink wink nudge nudge" and the sunni states and israel are going to take out the Iranian nuke program for us.
Short of that its a waste of resources, time, money and equipment.
Let these incompetents run the show for a while, lets see how it turns out. Im all for selling people wares, line em up and to the highest bidder goes.... But this grant business (not to mention the egyptians and saudi's) is ridiculous.
This entire foriegn policy of handouts and intervention on some idealogical princinpal of freedom for all has run its course... I mean enough already, let em find thier own way through the valley. You would think given the level of faith in that part of the world god would have shown up already and sorted it all out.
Instead we have give aways and freebies, its like a freakin game show at this point. "And behind curtain 2 you get 15 F-15 strike eagles ! Oh and for the poor sods that picked curtain 1 you get 2 years of shipments of M-15 assault rifles"
And this is in our strategic intrest how? How the hell is arming these idiot religous freaks going to help the U.S. ? The only positive outcome I can come up with is somewhere some one did a "wink wink nudge nudge" and the sunni states and israel are going to take out the Iranian nuke program for us.
Short of that its a waste of resources, time, money and equipment.
I'm not saying that I agree with the concept of large amounts of foreign aid either. Personally, I'd be a lot thrifty with the State Department and Pentagon giveaways myself. I tried to offer an explanation for this particular outrage d'jour.
As far as 'no aid to anybody' goes, that works just dandy if you're prepared to face a situation where the only friendly face is the one you see in the mirror. If you're prepared to watch the rest of the world disintegrate into chaos or subservience to your enemies, then yes, a 'no-aid ever' policy would benefit us locally. Without aid, Israel will cease to exist, and without aid, Britain in the 40's would have.
As far as 'no aid to anybody' goes, that works just dandy if you're prepared to face a situation where the only friendly face is the one you see in the mirror. If you're prepared to watch the rest of the world disintegrate into chaos or subservience to your enemies, then yes, a 'no-aid ever' policy would benefit us locally. Without aid, Israel will cease to exist, and without aid, Britain in the 40's would have.
Originally Posted by Don Corleone:
I tried to offer an explanation for this particular outrage d'jour.
You did, sorry for barking so loud its my time of the month.I tried to offer an explanation for this particular outrage d'jour.
Originally Posted by :
As far as 'no aid to anybody' goes, that works just dandy if you're prepared to face a situation where the only friendly face is the one you see in the mirror. If you're prepared to watch the rest of the world disintegrate into chaos or subservience to your enemies, then yes, a 'no-aid ever' policy would benefit us locally. Without aid, Israel will cease to exist, and without aid, Britain in the 40's would have.
No, im prepared for someone else to pick up the ball and run awhile. What about all these budding super powers like India and China? Cant they be the ones to set up aids relief funds to africa, and financial and military aid for natural disasters? As far as 'no aid to anybody' goes, that works just dandy if you're prepared to face a situation where the only friendly face is the one you see in the mirror. If you're prepared to watch the rest of the world disintegrate into chaos or subservience to your enemies, then yes, a 'no-aid ever' policy would benefit us locally. Without aid, Israel will cease to exist, and without aid, Britain in the 40's would have.
I mean the chinese are perhaps the most capialist people I have ever met, they ought to have a boon selling arms to the factions in the middle east.
You always seem to bring me back to some centered position with your logic Don and its very frustrating. I rather prefer my nonsensical ranting. That said, okay aid is appropriate at times but we've been in the game far to long. The U.N. Nato, the world bank on and on.... Enough. Lets let someone else have a go, and we can sit back and rebuild this country (as much as I dislike Manhattan it wasnt fun watching the pipe burst last month, or the power grid failures a few years ago).
And here is one last bit of extremism having Israel cease to exsist (although I doubt your outcome) might not be such a bad thing, maybe the Germans will pony up a few million acres in compensation and they can have that as thier new homeland? (Maybe the Iranians were right after all?)
No more money, no more aid, no more foriegn attachements based on ideology. its a big ocean, time for everyone to take of the saftey floats and jump in.
Originally Posted by Don Corleone:
... and without aid, Britain in the 40's would have {ceased to exist}.
We'd've just signed a peace treaty with Germany and got out of the war a lot earlier. We'd not have been bombed, we'd not have been bankrupted and Soviet Russia would probably have fallen. ... and without aid, Britain in the 40's would have {ceased to exist}.
The UK suffered so much through fighting Nazi Germany that it seems a tenant of faith that it was a good idea to do so. I realise that other countries suffered far more, but we alone had the option of signing peace that kept us out with no strings attached.
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