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Thread: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

  1. #1
    Member Member KafirChobee's Avatar
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    Default US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    First, I didn't realize (or ignored since it didn't come to fruition) that back a few years ago Iran had actually offered to go along with most of the demands we (USA) have on the table today - and that Cheney dumped it in the trash, because "we don't deal with evil".

    Reference, Cheney on Iran:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0118/p99s01-duts.html

    Now, as far as the successes? Well, the Bushys have united Russia and China (and aligned them with Iran) - something they could never have done without the rhetoric of Cheney, and their new found fear of wildmen (loose cannons, anyway) controlling our military.

    Reference, China and Russia to hold united military manuevers:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0816/p...uts.html?s=rel

    Then we have Cheney running around the WH calling for military action against Iran - probably not 'til 2008, or 18Jan2009 (thereby creating WWIII and allowing Bush to attempt proclaim marshall-law and kingship ).

    Reference, Cheney pushes for military action against Iran:
    http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Paper_...tion_0716.html

    There are a number of causes for China and Russia uniting - but, the Bushys running around ranting "We be the only Super Power!!!", may have something to do with it. Personally, we are fortunate that we have allies that remain faithful - once we attack Iran, that to may end. Still, that two of the most powerful (they got the bomb and delivery systems too) nations in the world have united against the US military gingoism presently substituting for diplomacy ought to raise a buncha red flags that our present overtures do not resemble diplomacy, but demand a confrontation by any that fear our intent. Or, wish to challange this whole super-power thingy.

    Which brings us to the question, what is our intent and by what means do we intend to accomplish them?" Since we now have a preemptive strike doctrine (thank you Wolfy and Rummy), it is probable that we will attack Iran with little or no warning. We need not invade - though our troop levels in Iraq are at present 180,000 and maybe at +220,000 by Jan2008 - just bombing Iran's nuclear facilities will be enough to cause enough death, carnage and chaos to acheive their goal - armageddon. Er, I mean ending the threat of Iranian nuclear ability to build bombs - and ending the threat of another terrorist supporting nation.

    We now have three carrier groups in the Persian Gulf (or gulf of Oman) to "protect" the flow of oil from Iranian interference, and to intimidate (which ain't working since China and Russia are on their side now). Can anyone name another time (aside from Oct62) when we had 2 carrier groups in a region and we were not at war (Iraq is an occupation - not a war)? The Bushys are playing brinkmanship - and not very well. They may succeed where even Reagan failed - to create WWIII.

    it maybe a rant to some, but it is the truth.

    Last edited by KafirChobee; 08-17-2007 at 03:13.
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  2. #2
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    I read about this in The Persian Puzzle and I've never understood why anyone would turn down a deal like this. The Iranians were helping us in Afghanistan, Saddam wasn't a problem anymore and we throw away possibly the only direct benefit of the Iraq war (besides Libya opening up).

    Sheer idiocy of the highest order!

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    Quote Originally Posted by KafirChobee
    Which brings us to the question, what is our intent and by what means do we intend to accomplish them?" Since we now have a preemptive strike doctrine (thank you Wolfy and Rummy), it is probable that we will attack Iran with little or no warning. We need not invade - though our troop levels in Iraq are at present 180,000 and maybe at +220,000 by Jan2008 - just bombing Iran's nuclear facilities will be enough to cause enough death, carnage and chaos to acheive their goal - armageddon. Er, I mean ending the threat of Iranian nuclear ability to build bombs - and ending the threat of another terrorist supporting nation.
    I'm no fan of cheney or the bush boys, however "ending the threat of Iranian nuclear ability to build bombs - and ending the threat of another terrorist supporting nation" sounds like a fine idea to me.

    Better yet maybe we can payoff(oopps give grants too) thier ideological enemies and have them do it for us? While I understand why Iran wants to develop nukes I rather not have to deal with them should they get to that point.

    We now have three carrier groups in the Persian Gulf (or gulf of Oman) to "protect" the flow of oil from Iranian interference, and to intimidate (which ain't working since China and Russia are on their side now). Can anyone name another time (aside from Oct62) when we had 2 carrier groups in a region and we were not at war (Iraq is an occupation - not a war)? The Bushys are playing brinkmanship - and not very well. They may succeed where even Reagan failed - to create WWIII.
    They already have with the global war on terror. Sorry folks no mushroom clouds thats going to have to wait until WWIV or V.
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  4. #4
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    By my count we're in World War 5.

    1 = 7 years war

    2 = WW1

    3 = WW2

    4 = Cold War

    5 = WoT

    Note: Some folks view 2 & 3 as the same war, suggesting that 1919-1939 was nothing but a ceasefire.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    Seamus , wouldn't the Napoleonic wars be #2

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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    The Napoleonic wars were restricted to the European theater, unlike the Seven years war or WW2.
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    I have to agree with Murat, Tribesman. Technically, the war of 1812 was a separate conflict and therefor only isolated actions were fought in the carribean and elsewhere -- not whole campaigns/theatres of action (I admit that is a bit picky...).
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  8. #8

    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    US will probably bomb Iran once it first gets Iraq sorted out. Probably in 100 years from right now.

    That is of course presuming that no one else fubars the USA first due to it being weak & vulnerable because of the very prolonged Iraq occupation.

  9. #9

    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    The Napoleonic wars were restricted to the European theater
    Apart from Africa , the middle -east , North South and Central Americas , the East Indies and the far East then yes it was resticted to Europe .

    Technically, the war of 1812 was a separate conflict
    Since the main cause of the conflict was the embargo then technically it was not a seperate conflict .
    The trade restrictions were part of the Napoleonic wars so the war over trade restrictions must be part of that war .

  10. #10
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    I wouldn't count the WoT as a World War to be honest.
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  11. #11
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyspy
    I wouldn't count the WoT as a World War to be honest.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Since the main cause of the conflict was the embargo then technically it was not a seperate conflict .
    The trade restrictions were part of the Napoleonic wars so the war over trade restrictions must be part of that war .
    Well, most of our merchant houses were actually fairly willing to trade with England (paid nicely) and leave Napoleon to himself, so the restrictions weren't so onerous in themselves. We'd shipped a lot of foodstuffs into France during the revolutionary period, but there was much less active support for Napoleon as he was viewed as another European general-made-ruler.

    Using our merchant fleet as a ready source of personnel did not sit well. Forced impressment of seamen, especially from a USN vessel, did hit all the "honor" bells for men of that era. Moreover, more than a few folks were still pretty annoyed at the British for the Revolutionary War. The South in particular were fairly pro-french (not pro-Napoleon) and had been hammered by the British during the 1780s. Add in the greed a few felt about acquiring the "settled" portions of Canada adn the general sense that Napoleon would keep most of the English occupied in Europe and you get a fuller picture. Greed almost always nips in there somewhere doesn't it?

    You could argue the "World War" status either way, Tribes. Since there were no "major" campaigns in Africa or East Asia, I round down. There were conflict scattered about all over, though, and no denying it.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  13. #13

    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    Well, most of our merchant houses were actually fairly willing to trade with England (paid nicely) and leave Napoleon to himself, so the restrictions weren't so onerous in themselves.
    Yeah ironic isn't it , the American embago did more damage to America itself than the British or French ones had .

    Using our merchant fleet as a ready source of personnel did not sit well.
    Ah but large numbers of those sailors in your merchant fleet were British citizens .

    Forced impressment of seamen, especially from a USN vessel, did hit all the "honor" bells for men of that era.
    The 4 men taken from the USS Chesapeake were RN sailors , the honor bells were tolling on both sides .

    All in all that particular war must rank as one of the most senseless .

  14. #14
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: US successes in handling Iran; or when will we bomb them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Ah but large numbers of those sailors in your merchant fleet were British citizens.
    Well, as you know, crewing ships at the time was rarely done in a one-nation only per crew fashion,even among the naval vessels. Were a fair percentage legally Brits -- probability approaches unity. U.S. law did not recognize the validity of the British stopping our ships -- though their laws were precise about the action being valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    The 4 men taken from the USS Chesapeake were RN sailors, the honor bells were tolling on both sides.
    I've read suggestions that not all 4 were, though it is a certainty that at least two were RN deserters. Still, I can't help but think that the officers involved knew that it would be a gross insult, would create an international incident, and just didn't give a hang.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    All in all that particular war must rank as one of the most senseless.
    Well, certainly not much was accomplished by anybody -- except for a few personal reputations of course -- no strategic changes were made aside from Detroit. At least (comparatively) few people were killed or maimed in the process.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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