Mohamed Haneef case

[sapi]

Anyone else keeping up with this?

Absolutely disgraceful the way the Australian government's been treating him...

Concise summary of the case (follow the links from the article above for more info)
- arrested in connection with london/glasgow bombings
- held for 270 hours without trial
- granted bail by magistrate

Okay, that's a normal case up until now. That is, until the government decided to deport Haneef regardless of the result of his criminal case.

That's justice for you...

Now, am I just being a cynic, or could this have some small connection with it being election year?

[Scurvy]

more information needs to be given as to why his visa has been removed... if he's proven to be innocent then its hard to see why he should be deported

[Don Corleone]

Scurvy's right. Perhaps in the process of picking him up, the authorities discovered he was in violation of your visa rules. If so, then just because he manages to beat the aiding & abetting terrorism charge, he would still be deportable.

[Shahed]

Yeah but they're still trying to scare people. How about packing a "go bag".

[KukriKhan]

Is that the same as a bugout bag ?

[Shahed]

Pretty much, but smaller and with a few less items.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6902143.stm

It's a neat idea but one wonders about it's usefulness to Australian society, a people already very capable of handling themselves. Looks like a political gimmick. Why did'nt they do it earlier ? Why now ? It's a good safety precaution for any person in any city BUT there's obviously a political benefit for the ruling party.

I met an Australian in a cafe today, he was also pretty upset by the government's "bogeyman" attitude.

[sapi]

It's a neat idea but one wonders about it's usefulness to Australian society, a people already very capable of handling themselves. Looks like a political gimmick. Why did'nt they do it earlier ? Why now ? It's a good safety precaution for any person in any city BUT there's obviously a political benefit for the ruling party.

It's election year, and the incubent party has the better security credentials.

Scurvy's right. Perhaps in the process of picking him up, the authorities discovered he was in violation of your visa rules. If so, then just because he manages to beat the aiding & abetting terrorism charge, he would still be deportable.

Unfortunately, the 457 visa he was 'imported' under requires a background check. It's doubtful that anything major slipped through that; this is merely an attempt to stir up fear in election year...

[CountArach]

Another example of Racial Profiling gone horribly wrong.

Now, am I just being a cynic, or could this have some small connection with it being election year?

No, no, never. How could you possibly think that? Howard is quite probably the most honest man in this country. He would never do something like this to a fellow human, let alone a Muslim!

It's election year, and the incubent party has the better security credentials.

I know I sit in the clear minority here (Seeing as I am going to join the Greens when I am 18), but I would honestly feel more secure with a Labor Government. At least I know I won't be terrorised by my own Government at that point.

[sapi]

I know I sit in the clear minority here (Seeing as I am going to join the Greens when I am 18), but I would honestly feel more secure with a Labor Government. At least I know I won't be terrorised by my own Government at that point.

Yeah, well, I'd vote nazi over liberal at this stage

[sapi]

Interesting.

Police today admitted to "minor inconsistencies" in the case against Dr Haneef.

One of those inconsistencies is the fact that the SIM card from Haneef's phone, claimed to be found at the site of the failed Glasgow bombing, was in fact taken from his cousin's house.

Ah, well, not like the entire case was based on that one thing.

[Papewaio]

Its a bad one for sure.

The government is going to remove his Visa for associating with people of bad character (having an association with terrorists is enough to have ones Visa failed).

This is based on his cousin being one of the people jailed over the British bombings.

This however brings into a situation of where the Dr in Australia is guilty before being proven innocent based on the Australian government assuming that another person in another country will be found guilty of a crime heinous enough to cause the Dr in Australia to fail his visa check.

Now it seems a bit too farcical to myself that he is essentially having his Visa removed at this point because he associated with another person. The other person is innocent until proven guilty, so all the Dr in Aus has done is associate with a cousin at this point. Also does this make all family members guilty of what another family member does? Seems the Bin Laden's might want to avoid comming to Australia.

Now the local courts ruled that he could go free on bail. The Federal Government said that his Visa was removed... they also said that they have additional evidence, evidence that is so secret the courts can't see it...

Anyhow, the government of the day is citing secret facts, guilty before proven innocent and for good measure is sending in the military into outback aborigine communities, none of this has any link to it being an election year.

[Papewaio]

Pretty much, but smaller and with a few less items.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6902143.stm

Sydney's city council said residents need to think about what they would do in the event of a terrorist attack, a natural disaster or an outbreak of a contagious disease.

Sydney City Council only looks after the harbourside CBD, not greater Sydney so they only represent a fraction of 'Sydney'... also they are known for being brilliantly stupid. Such as telling people who should be quarantined during a contagious disease that they should join groups of other people so that they can... what? spread the happiness along with the germs.

Anyhow this is the same council a couple of years ago didn't want to spend money on Xmas decorations... which is kind of stupid from the point of view that the CBD shopkeepers biggest sale period is Christmass... they about faced on that one and the next year and onwards have tried to make up for it... something to do with rates being only able to go up with high rental areas where successful businesses reside.

[Shahed]

I guess everyone's already aware of the more recent developments, but just in case:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6919399.stm

[Nobunaga]

[Ja'chyra]

Quite right, deport him.

This isn't a court of law this is a country's immigration policy that is purely the concern of that country. If they have any reason at all to suspect him of being a danger he should be kicked out, I just wish our politicians had the backbone to do this too.

[Tribesman]

Hey Ja'chyra
.
Deport him for what exactly?

[Tribesman]

Now thats gotta be worth an instagib

[Ser Clegane]

Now thats gotta be worth an instagib

Naahh...

[Tribesman]

1 warning point !!!!!!! jesus what do you have to do to get banned ?

[Gregoshi]

1 warning point !!!!!!! jesus what do you have to do to get banned ?

You need a banned aid Tribesman.

[Ja'chyra]

Hey Ja'chyra
.
Deport him for what exactly?

It's their country, why do they even need a reason?

[Xiahou]

Quite right, deport him.

This isn't a court of law this is a country's immigration policy that is purely the concern of that country. If they have any reason at all to suspect him of being a danger he should be kicked out, I just wish our politicians had the backbone to do this too.

I agree. I wasn't aware of any burden of proof for deportation. If a country knows someone is a threat- prosecute them. (the government seems to have dropped the ball there) But if they think he's a threat, why not deport him? Certainly you're stuck with your own citizens, but I don't see why they'd renew a visa for a person they think may have any sort of ties at all to terrorism.

[Tribesman]

well on reflection , seeing some of the comments concerning the case , weighing those against the facts as put forward in the case
Bollox is a one word response that answers all the bull excrement from certain posters regarding this case.
If you are too thick to understand then have it in big lettersThere was no case
the whole thing was a pile of crap .
Soooooo.....

It's their country, why do they even need a reason?

Errrrrrrrrrr....because doing things without a reason makes you look bloody stupid, doing contraversial things without a reason makes you look really really completely bloody stupid , doing contraversial things without a reason when everyone is telling you it makes you look stupid makes you look like a complete imbecielic knobend .

As it happened the Australian government backed off the imbecielic knobend position and blamed the Brits for the mistakes they had made

Edit by Ser Clegane: this way of "debating" issues will not be tolerated here

[Papewaio]

Quite right, deport him.

This isn't a court of law this is a country's immigration policy that is purely the concern of that country. If they have any reason at all to suspect him of being a danger he should be kicked out, I just wish our politicians had the backbone to do this too.

And yet you would be wrong. The politicians aren't doing it for backbone, they are trying to gather votes in an election year.

I do not believe that justice should be thrown out based on fear. The idea that we are better off because secret information is being used to determine who will stay or go is a load of daisies.

If the law courts and the top federal prosecutor throw out the case, I think what the Minister for Immigration is fundamentally wrong. Either tighten up the law or at least present the 'secret' information to a court of law... but it seems this information would not hold up in a court of law any better then the rest of the information that was presented and dismissed.

[AntiochusIII]

This isn't a court of law this is a country's immigration policy that is purely the concern of that country. If they have any reason at all to suspect him of being a danger he should be kicked out, I just wish our politicians had the backbone to do this too.

Wow, that's some serious national sovereignty advocacy there. Considering I generally on the concept though...

I must respectfully disagree.

For all the signs Howard is doing that just for the appearance. May it backfire and backfire badly. An innocent man doesn't deserve injustice for the worst of all possible reasons -- political gain. This worldwide trend of immigration scare is getting increasingly ridiculous in my opinion.

*Antiochus is one step closer to being a full-blown terrorist-supporter

Tribesman & Gregoshi: lol.

[Ja'chyra]

well on reflection , seeing some of the comments concerning the case , weighing those against the facts as put forward in the case
Bollox is a one word response that answers all the bull excrement from certain posters regarding this case.
If you are too thick to understand then have it in big lettersThere was no case
the whole thing was a pile of crap .
Soooooo.....Errrrrrrrrrr....because doing things without a reason makes you look bloody stupid, doing contraversial things without a reason makes you look really really completely bloody stupid , doing contraversial things without a reason when everyone is telling you it makes you look stupid makes you look like a complete imbecielic knobend .

As it happened the Australian government backed off the imbecielic knobend position and blamed the Brits for the mistakes they had made

There we go, the old if you don't agree with Tribeman I'll just insult you argument.

So from you're structured argument we get

Bollox, bull excrement, you are too thick to understand, pile of crap, complete imbecielic knobend, imbecielic knobend position.

Bravo, but I'm sure some of them aren't even words, so thick I might be but at least I don't make up my own language to support my ranting.

[Tribesman]

so thick I might be but at least I don't make up my own language to support my ranting.

To support your position Ja you would have to be able to put something forward which backed it up , there would have to be some reason .

In this case there is no reason whatsoever , nothing at all to back it up , so to maintain such a position is indeed very stupid .

[sapi]

Quite right, deport him.

This isn't a court of law this is a country's immigration policy that is purely the concern of that country. If they have any reason at all to suspect him of being a danger he should be kicked out, I just wish our politicians had the backbone to do this too.

Right now, I'm wondering whether it's worth even responding to that sort of argument...

Suppose you have to

The whole ****** point of this case is that this isn't a court of law - this is immigration policy.

Ignoring the cynical view for now that the Howard government is only doing this to attempt to wedge-vote Rudd (federal opp leader) into disagreeing with the security laws in election year (which is true, btw); but ignoring that for now, what you're saying is that the government has the authority to overrule the courts on any decision that they disagree with.

So maybe I'll take this one step further to underline the point that you are supporting. Quite simply, I suspect that you are a danger to the country. There is a very high chance that, when you spread such views as those outlined above, several gullible people will believe you, and support such devastating policies. Clearly, this is not something that we want to see happen to the country. As such, I'm afraid that we're going to have to deport you, to ensure the overall security of the country. Please accept our condolences.

Aren't you lucky we have the backbone to do it?

[Shahed]

L M F A O

Anyway I still think Queensland is cool ! Australia is cool overall, it HAS TO BE a cool place !

[Ja'chyra]

Sorry, been busy.

My view of immigration is that it is the individuals responsibility to integrate with the country they want to go to, I also believe it is the countries responsibility to ensure the safety of its citizens, this means that if they have any inclination that someone should be allowed in or sent home then that is good enough. This would be tempered in the department by the needs of the country for skilled people, it has nothing to do with courts or law.

And the fact is that they may have proof to support the evidence to send him home, I'm sure no-one, not even Tribesman, knows all the details of this case.