Does the AI do ANYTHING right?

[Budwise]

Well, does it?

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Let the debate begin.

[Budwise]

And you can't say the following-

Suck, cheat, all ally against you, showing random acts of stupidity...ect

[hoetje]

they block ports.....


(starts crying!)

[Mithradates]

When only united action will destroy you they will all immediately do that. Thats celver right?

[Bob the Insane]

It does the reglious warfare thing pretty well...

I have a hard time commenting on vanilla because I am play Lusted's LtC at the moment and AI is doing a pretty good job of making my life hard playing as the Byz.

As I stated in another thread, if only the Battlefield AI was more challenging I would be in serious trouble. But the fact that I can pretty much guarantee winning battles, unless I am very much out numbered, brings any deficiencies in the campaign AI into sharp focus.

[icek]

after defeat in suprise attack they imidiatelly go for ceasefire :lol:

[Matt_Lane]

Personally I think the AI in the campeign is'nt too bad, I particularily like the way it will exploits weak points you have when it could be sending its units straight at your full stacks. As said above its most wanting on the Battlefield where its lack os strategy lets it down.

[Ramses II CP]

The AI is a highly accomplished builder of Thieves Guilds. I doubt that even if I made it a priority I could put a thieves guild in every single city in my empire.

[BoyarPunk]

They sure know how to saturate my provinces with priests (especially if they are Catholic and I'm not).

[Jasaray]

Well, does it?

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Let the debate begin.

Only by accident.

[dismal]

Actually all those senseless attacks and blockades do take a certain toll.

Lately it seems like I have been hit by a naval invasion from Sicily in turn 5 in 3 or 4 straight campaigns. In my current VH/VH France campaign, they landed near Marseille and took it. I mustered up an army and took it back, but they seem quite obsessed with Marseille, atacking it every 5 or 6 turns. The total gold I have spent garrisoning it and lost due to sieges and blockades over the years has to be in the 10,000's.

I don't think it has been a productive strategy for Sicily, but it has certainly been a drag on me.

[Zenicetus]

It does handle the non-combat stuff pretty well; things like religious "warfare", merchants, spies. I've had my plans for opening gates or assassinating family members foiled by finding 4 or 5 spies in a settlement. Maybe not the best use of the AI's resources, but it was a tough nut to crack.

The big letdowns are mostly in how it decides to put together and use military units on the campaign map. I swear if I see another stack of nothing but artillery plus one captain, I'm gonna scream....

[Skott]

The AI does have its moment of brilliances at times. I notice this more when playing LtC or TLR mods though. The Vanilla game is inferior to the mods IMHO.

[supadodo]

Hmm...full stacks of pavise crossbows and italian spear militia that pop out all over Venice and Milan like daisies in spring.

[GFX707]

Well, I don't know if you could consider this "right", but it sure knows how to spam agents and ships (to the neglect of its armies) so that if you even try to sail a ship across a stretch of water it will get bounced around between enemy fleets until it disappears.

"Navies cannot withdraw"?

*smashes monitor*

[Bob the Insane]

Hey, check out this quote from the article on the new Empire Total War game:

James takes up the theme. "One of the quirks of the old engine was that the diplomacy and military AI were two separate routines, developed separately by two different programmers. Those systems fought each other. The military side would say 'we need to invade' while the diplomatic side will say 'well, I just made a treaty with them.' Getting them to work together was difficult. It meant the behaviour wasn't always consistent."

Interesting perspective on the issues we see...

[khaos83_2000]

Hey, check out this quote from the article on the new Empire Total War game:



Interesting perspective on the issues we see...

It seems to work that way in the real world too. haha

[Zenicetus]

Well, I don't know if you could consider this "right", but it sure knows how to spam agents and ships (to the neglect of its armies) so that if you even try to sail a ship across a stretch of water it will get bounced around between enemy fleets until it disappears.

Just personal opinion here, but I like that aspect of the game because it encourages putting some of your resources into building up a navy. Sink them before they sink you! Sea power was strategically important during this period covered by the game, so I think it's realistic, at least for any faction with a few coastal provinces.

The one thing I don't like about it, is the total control each fleet has over its square and surrounding squares on the map. That's not terribly realistic considering the size of the Med, the North Sea, etc. If you're just trying to slip past enemy ships without engaging in combat, there should be some chance of doing that. Maybe something like an increased fog of war effect for ships, or even allowing ships to pass through another ship's square unnoticed, if you hit a good dice roll. Right now the ships act like they have radar and AWACS support.

If the next TW title does include enhanced naval combat (which a lot of people have asked for), I hope they manage to get away from this Risk board game style of controlling the seas.

[GFX707]

Just personal opinion here, but I like that aspect of the game because it encourages putting some of your resources into building up a navy. Sink them before they sink you! Sea power was strategically important during this period covered by the game, so I think it's realistic, at least for any faction with a few coastal provinces.

Yeah....it's so much fun chasing 30 or 40 one-or-two-ship stacks around the mediterranean when they just won't die, but rather just retreat further and further until you can't be bothered any more.

The one thing I don't like about it, is the total control each fleet has over its square and surrounding squares on the map. That's not terribly realistic considering the size of the Med, the North Sea, etc. If you're just trying to slip past enemy ships without engaging in combat, there should be some chance of doing that.

I'm with you there.

Maybe something like an increased fog of war effect for ships, or even allowing ships to pass through another ship's square unnoticed, if you hit a good dice roll. Right now the ships act like they have radar and AWACS support.

....and Captains that are either really stubborn, blind, or stupid. I am talking about the "Navies cannot retreat" thing of course.

M2TW Lookout:"Sir, we have spotted a huge enemy fleet on the horizon. They're coming straight for us"
M2TW Captain: (Sticks fingers in ears) "LALALALALALA I can't hear you"

If the next TW title does include enhanced naval combat (which a lot of people have asked for), I hope they manage to get away from this Risk board game style of controlling the seas.

Yes, IMO CA should either go back to the Risk boardgame feel (like STW and MTW where the campaign map actually WAS made to look like pieces on a tabletop) or make a proper 3D realtime campaign map.

[Skott]

Well, as far as naval battles goes they've decided to go a different route. This taken from a AnandTech post today:




"The return of one of PC Gaming's all time great franchises challenges gamers to become General, Admiral and King in Empire: Total WarTM.

LONDON & SAN FRANCISCO (August 22nd, 2008) – SEGA® Europe Ltd. and SEGA® of America, Inc. today announced Empire: Total War™, the revolutionary new instalment of The Creative Assembly’s wildly successful, multi award winning Total War™ RTS franchise. Empire: Total War™ will maintain the series genre leading 3D battles, grand turn based campaign map and rich historical flavour while for the first time introducing 3D naval combat into the series.

Empire: Total War™ is set in the 18th century, a turbulent era that is the most requested by Total War’s™ loyal fan base and a period alive with global conflict, revolutionary fervour and technological advances. With themes such as the Industrial Revolution, America’s struggle for independence, the race to control Eastern trade routes and the globalisation of war on land and sea, Empire: Total War™ promises to be amongst the richest and most dynamic PC RTS games of all time.

Empire: Total War™ will see the debut of 3D naval combat within the Total War™ franchise. PC Gamers will be able to intuitively command vast fleets or single ships upon seascapes rich with extraordinary water and weather effects that play a huge role in your eventual glorious success or ignominious defeat. After pummelling your enemy with cannon fire, close in to grapple their ship and prepare to board taking control your men as they fight hand to hand on the decks.

Along with the revolutionary introduction of Naval Combat, Empire: Total War™ will see further enhancements to the Total War™ series signature 3D battles and turn based campaign map. Real time battles will pose new challenges with the addition of cannon and musket, challenging players to master new formations and tactics as a result of the increasing role of gunpowder within warfare. And the Campaign Map – for many the heart of Total War™ – will see new improved systems for Trade, Diplomacy and Espionage with agents, a refined and streamlined UI, improved Advisors and extended scope taking in the riches of India, the turbulence of Europe and the untapped potential of North America.

“Empire: Total War™ is a huge revolutionary step for the series. We’re delighted to introduce true 3D naval combat, something that adds a totally new dimension to Total War™ games.” commented Mike Simpson, Studio Director at The Creative Assembly and the father of the Total War™ franchise. “We’re genuinely excited about what we’re achieving with the naval battles and also by the scale of the improvements being made to the core of the game – the land battles and the campaign. This will undoubtedly be the biggest and best Total War™ game we’ve ever made.”

Empire: Total War™ has already been secretly in development at The Creative Assembly’s Horsham studio for over a year and is priming its forces for a release in 2008. For more information please visit www.totalwar.com or www.sega-europe.com. For assets and press registration please visit www.sega-press.com"



3D naval battles. Interesting...

[sapi]

Very much so - there's a forum for ETW here

[Odin]

they block ports.....


(starts crying!)

Yes, during war the AI does a very good job of blocking ports. So i would say that it does this right.

[Budwise]

Very much so - there's a forum for ETW here

Exactly what are you showing me? I don't see anything related to this tread there.

[Benandorf]

There is one thing the AI always seems to do right: Charge. No matter what it's doing, the AI always seems to be able to get a charge off. Doesn't matter if you turn, if they turn, if you charge them, they always can get a charge. Which is one thing that is hard for a human player to do without a lot of practice.

[Ramses II CP]

Sapi's replying to Skott, Budwise.

[ixidor]

The AI is a highly accomplished builder of Thieves Guilds. I doubt that even if I made it a priority I could put a thieves guild in every single city in my empire.

Yeah, it's almost annoying. I usually have to destroy over 20 thieves houses for campaign...

Anyway, as you said well, the AI is not that bad in using agents and finding ungarrison cities or castles. He is also tough in the in the religion warfare and also, well, you can't complain with lack of enemies. You can be at war with over 10 powerful nations, even the whole world if you wanted. The only 2 main problems are the resources management, which is hardly a problem when the AI seems to take resources, money and troops out of pure air, and the battles. They should have taugh the AI that a frontal charge isn't the only way to fight an enemy, that chasing missile cavalry with infantry is suicide or that cavalry units running for their armies' rear are not intend to leave the battlefield...