Roman army in film

[Centurion Crastinus]

What movie or movies most historically shows the way that Legionaires fought, looked, or behaved. Also, why was it that the Roman soldiers in The Passion of the Christ had lorica segmentata that appeared as if it were made of leather. Is there something that I'm missing?

[russia almighty]

Cheap bastards in budget and or costume design ? When people think of legions they tend to think of the LS armored legions . Not the Earlier chain covered ones or the Camilian ones .


I would love to see a movie with Camilian legions going against Phyruss of Eprius .

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I can't think of any movies with extremely accurate Roman Legions. But if the movie is about the middle of the Emperial timeframe, AD0-AD200ish, LS isn't necessarily bad to have.

[GracchusTheGreat]

The opening scene of the first episode of HBO's "Rome" series shows Caesar's legions fighting against Gauls, complete with unit rotation and the Romans' good-ol' shield-bashing and quick-stabbing. The second season has a portrayal of the battle of Philippi, in which the clashing armies eventually lose their cohesion entirely. Not at all like RTW. At one point, Octavian Caesar asks Marc Antony, "Are we winning?" To which Antony replies, "Beats me. When all else fails, Attack!" So far this series is the best you can hope to see of Roman combat.

And of course there's Gladiator. I wouldn't bother.

[Thaatu]

Well Gladiator did have the battle against the furballs, which was pretty atmospheric, if not accurate.

[Geoffrey S]

There was a good short series with each episode being about a particular great Roman. They used sets and costumes from various larger productions, and the overall effect was great. Some of the actors were very good (Nero), and for a limited budget they got some really nice battles (Gracchus as a young man attacking Carthage and the siege of Jerusalem were particularly nice) in some cases showing tactics very well (Pharsalus) with correct pre-Imperial uniforms. It wasn't great, and at times looked very cheap, but in general I was very impressed at what they managed to achieve.

[sass]

I believe the Units in the Passian that have leather are temple guards not roma military..Im not certen but the legians did not wear battle gear unless on campian or in the field..or patrol..the wiping scean is while in the fortress and there would be no need to have city milita wearing expensive armor becouse thats what thy where urban local millita leather is somewhat apporeate we really have no idea what the axillary units wore so anything go's

Also the best fighting men are not going to be set watching and killing Prisoners..thy would be in there barracks or out side of the citys away from the vices of the everday people So i'm certen that retired or ageing or local men at arms would have assisted the gov in dealing with small petty affers such as tending the jails and handing down roman law..the tenth legian marching and wiping jesus very laughable.

On a side note..alot of the old roma military hardware was given to the old stock and city milita so leather and old bits of armor wouldent be so much out of place

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I believe the Units in the Passian that have leather are temple guards not roma military..Im not certen but the legians did not wear battle gear unless on campian or in the field..or patrol..the wiping scean is while in the fortress and there would be no need to have city milita wearing expensive armor becouse thats what thy where urban local millita leather is somewhat apporeate we really have no idea what the axillary units wore so anything go's

No, Roman troops policied the local population, militias were not a real part of the Roman Empire beyond the town/night watches. militias are loyal to the local population, soldiers are loyal to the Emperor. Also, we know what the Auxillaries wore I'm afraid. In this period, from archaeology alone, without texts or guesswork, I can reconstruct pretty much any class of soldier with a high degree of confidence.

Also the best fighting men are not going to be set watching and killing Prisoners..thy would be in there barracks or out side of the citys away from the vices of the everday people So i'm certen that retired or ageing or local men at arms would have assisted the gov in dealing with small petty affers such as tending the jails and handing down roman law..the tenth legian marching and wiping jesus very laughable.

Again, no. Roman soldiers were more than just meatheads and by having them run local affairs under the procurator Rome and the Emperor maintained control. In this case the procurator was in Jerusalem and the soldiers on his staff would have likely come from the legionary garrison.

On a side note..alot of the old roma military hardware was given to the old stock and city milita so leather and old bits of armor wouldent be so much out of place

I'd like your source for this, as far as I know old gear was recycled or simply used until it dissintegrated. In any case the leather lorica seen in The Passion is complete fantasy based almost entirely on a poor artist's depiction of armour on Trajan's column.

[Centurion Crastinus]

Geoffrey S, was the series you described on the history channel or the military channel. I think I watched the series that you mentioned. It was televised about six months ago was it not.

[Maeran]

Cheap bastards in budget and or costume design ? When people think of legions they tend to think of the LS armored legions . Not the Earlier chain covered ones or the Camilian ones .


I would love to see a movie with Camilian legions going against Phyruss of Eprius .

I'd like to see something along the lines of 'the life of Camillus', but I have no illusions of it happening on film.

There was a mini series on Hannibal which had pretty good Iberian, and Celtic gear. I only saw Scipio senior for the Romans though and his breastplate didn't look good. But then I only saw the first episode, which got Hannibal across the Alps- just.

Just spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it on the net, but can't. Lots of other Hannibal projects, including one from National Geographic. Too much to hope for?

[Primative1]

There was a mini series on Hannibal which had pretty good Iberian, and Celtic gear. I only saw Scipio senior for the Romans though and his breastplate didn't look good. But then I only saw the first episode, which got Hannibal across the Alps- just.

Just spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it on the net, but can't. Lots of other Hannibal projects, including one from National Geographic. Too much to hope for?

This is it:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0766213/

I'm no expert but the battle scenes looked very good/authentic.

[Maeran]

That's the bunny.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Well Gladiator did have the battle against the furballs, which was pretty atmospheric, if not accurate.

One of the funniest things about that battle, beside the completely incorrect representation of the Roman military, is the fact they are fighting in a 'clear-cut'. It is clearly a modern tree plantation with a fresh clear-cut in it.

[Geoffrey S]

Geoffrey S, was the series you described on the history channel or the military channel. I think I watched the series that you mentioned. It was televised about six months ago was it not.

I didn't see it on either of those, but on the BBC. It could have been the same program; they did a series on (definitely) Tiberius Gracchus, Nero, Caesar, Titus and Vespasian, and Constantine. I think it was called something like Rise and Fall of an Empire.

Maeran, I saw that Hannibal thing. Wasn't too keen on it. They tried to fit in far too much in about two hours, and ended up not covering anything significantly. It had some nice sets and costumes, but they were generally used in far too confusing a way, certainly when trying to cover a major battle (Cannae) briefly.

[Patriote]

what's a clear-cut ?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Perhas he means the trees were aligned on a grid of sorts...? To facilitate the cavalry scene?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The whole opening battle scene in Gladiator is in a tree plantation with a fresh clearcut. Every tree is the same species, same size, and equally spaced.

[Intrepid Adventurer]

The whole opening battle scene in Gladiator is in a tree plantation with a fresh clearcut. Every tree is the same species, same size, and equally spaced.

I also heard the overseer (or whomever oversaw that part of the forest there) gladly had it used for the movie. Everything was going to be cut down soon anyway and after the filming with lots of fire and that jazz was done, there sure was a lot less woodcutting to do. ;)

Anyway, what's wrong with the army depicted in this scene from Gladiator? (I really don't know, so I'm just curious!)

[Rodion Romanovich]

What movie or movies most historically shows the way that Legionaires fought, looked, or behaved. Also, why was it that the Roman soldiers in The Passion of the Christ had lorica segmentata that appeared as if it were made of leather. Is there something that I'm missing?

The best I've seen so far is the end battle in Stanley Cubrick's "Spartacus", because the legionaries IIRC held realistic formations and the battle scene wasn't full of flaming arrows, flaming pigs, dancing elephants, man-to-man sword duels, people bending down over fallen comrades in the middle of the battle with slow motion and music, and they weren't running at top speed all the time for hours, and cliché-filled battle speeches. However, the actual battle wasn't shown in much detail, but rather: after the manouvering they switched to a picture of the dead after the battle had ended. About whether the roman legionary equipment was correct for the era etc., I can't comment, but the atmosphere was more realistic than most other examples I've seen.

[Brusilov]

I didn't see it on either of those, but on the BBC. It could have been the same program; they did a series on (definitely) Tiberius Gracchus, Nero, Caesar, Titus and Vespasian, and Constantine. I think it was called something like Rise and Fall of an Empire.

"Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0864944/

Available from play.com (UK);

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/11262...e/Product.html

Amazon.co.uk;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancient-Rome...7874427&sr=8-1

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I also heard the overseer (or whomever oversaw that part of the forest there) gladly had it used for the movie. Everything was going to be cut down soon anyway and after the filming with lots of fire and that jazz was done, there sure was a lot less woodcutting to do. ;)

Anyway, what's wrong with the army depicted in this scene from Gladiator? (I really don't know, so I'm just curious!)

Their equipment was wrong, they didn't hurl pila, they didn't advance in formation, they moved into the woods, they lacked dicipline.

Just to point out the obvious.

The equipment in Sparticus was actually pretty good for the era the film was made. Unfortunately at that time there was a lot less to go on but the helmets are at least real if 150 years too early.

[Patriote]

Very interesting PVC !

IIRC the legionaries advanced shoulders to shoulders much like a phalanx, unlike the much more spaced formation they normally used, forming a shield wall that was used against the arrow volley of the barbarians (probably to show an image of something like a "Tortoise" that everybody knows about roman legionaries)

And you are so right, the romans even let the barbarians charge them instead of throwing their pilla and then charging in.

The Roman General even had his cavalry charging through the woods having a dog acompagnying him

[NeoSpartan]

"Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0864944/

Available from play.com (UK);

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/11262...e/Product.html

Amazon.co.uk;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancient-Rome...7874427&sr=8-1

That is the only movie or program that I have seen with correct armor for each time period.

[pezhetairoi]

Spartacus was quite cool, and is the only movie I have ever seen or heard of that actually showed the Romans deploying in the checkerboard triplex acies prior to battle. The way they marched to form up is also shown, and while purely conjecture as I see it, seems very nicely thought out from a purely aesthetic point of view. Pity, though. Spartacus was after Marius, and the cohortal formation was not checker-boarded with square checkers anymore, but long rectangular ones. Right formation, wrong era. But if I recall correctly, the Spartacus legionnaires used segmentata o.o

[GracchusTheGreat]

Sheesh, I didn't know this was going to turn into such a heated debate on armor! But hell, since we're looking, HBO's Rome series depicts Republican legionnaries uncannily similar to those in EB. If only there were a way to rotate the lines like that in the game...(watch and you'll see what I mean).

[pseudocaesar]

some nifty scenes from the series.

Brutus' Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcnPpo0tV6M

Caesar's Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Bj...elated&search=

Caesar's Speech to the 13th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PeN1k9AAMg

Antony and Octavian vs Brutus etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHzX...elated&search=

[Intrepid Adventurer]

HBO Rome? I heard that series was smothered in sex. It's good, though?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It is an interesting show. But, yes, it has too much sex. It's HBO and they go to extremes just because they can.

[Geoffrey S]

Heh, the long distance shots of that major Rome battle look barely better than MTW2.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Sheesh, I didn't know this was going to turn into such a heated debate on armor! But hell, since we're looking, HBO's Rome series depicts Republican legionnaries uncannily similar to those in EB. If only there were a way to rotate the lines like that in the game...(watch and you'll see what I mean).

I'm sorry but that's just not true. I was talking to a friend of mine (who is an archaeologist specialising in the Roman army) and we were talking about just how bad it was. The fact that you think the series was realistic just goes to show how damaging it has been.