New Total War game announced!

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I doubt that EB2 will skip M2TW and go to the new Total War. M2TW has the same engine as RTW and many things can be ported or converted. Most likely, the new engine will require a complete restart of everything, including learning a completely new system.

[KuKulzA]

Shigawire - you exlained it quite well

I haven't even bought M2:TW yet. E:TW will likely come after a new computer, from the sounds of things. Hell, my current computer will have enough time dealing with M2:TW. Someone, please tell them to slow down. I'm not ready for a new TW yet.

dude, I hear ya

War will never be fair. Never has, never will.

I think the word you are looking for is "impersonal".

Exactly, you don't often look the guy in the eyes and have the guts to slice his face off in the most modern warfare




glad to have my words translated into more concise and understanding forms

ya'll know what I mean now

[NeoSpartan]

I don't what u guys are talking about, war was hell then, it is hell now, it will be hell tomorrow.

moving on....
This new TW game will take at least 2 years to come out (not only a lot of work has to yet to be done, but the technology to run it has to become affortable. It will be stupid to release a new game after spending a LOT of $$, and only have a few thousands of people buying it.)

Also, the tranfer form EB to EB2 will be a lot easier than it was creating EB. This is due to the game engine being the same, most of the research being already done, etc. But now, EB3 will be harder, but it is still doable. Plus CA knows that people are buying their games to play the mods so they will make sure modding is easy. Wasn't it easier to mod RTW compared to MTW or STW??????

This new TW.... will kick ass. It is a shame that it will most likely be almost 100% western oriented, but then again you never know CA has being know to add "fantasy units"......

[NeoSpartan]

One thing is for DARN SURE!!!

I will play the USA and do some REAL butt kicking.

(I will wait for at least a couple of patches to come out before I buy the game though)

[Tiberius Nero]

I just cross my fingers and hope they will put some effort into diplomacy and battle/campaign AI this time for a change; if it is another case of "Brain Dead:TW" I will never bother buying it, that's for sure.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Some promising statements:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...&mode=previews

You'll be able to conduct a wide range of naval warfare tactics, including boarding enemy vessels.

Land battles will introduce new features, such as the ability to garrison men in buildings. They'll also introduce the use of cover, such as walls, which is required for the introduction of rifle combat.

There will still be cavalry charges and melee combat in the form of bayonet charges as well.

Even better, the designers realized that players were spending too much time building units and then marching them around the map just to merge into a single army. So now you'll be able to designate a general to be the nucleus of an army, and new units will assemble around him. Thus, a lot of tedious micromanagement is easily eliminated.

This may be interesting, but I hope it can be turned off when more control is needed.

For me the by far most important thing about the not yet revealed stuff is whether the game is easily moddable to fix the pre-shipped unit stats (for battle speed and balance and toning down of big explosion-causing weapons), and replacing unit roosters with more historically accurate ones, and add some way of incorporating low supply in foreign land (as EB did, or to an even greater effect if the core engine can give non-battle losses for it as well).

[CrownOfSwords]

Sounds pretty awesome, it will probably crush Napoleon TW underfoot. Yet i hope they release it a little more polished this time.... hell they should give everyone on this forum a chance to beta test it and review it before release I bet we would make it a damn good game

[Tellos Athenaios]

But CA wouldn't sell as much, would it?

[name]

But CA wouldn't sell as much, would it?

sure they'd, they could make the beta test time limited ;)

[NeoSpartan]

But CA wouldn't sell as much, would it?

Actually CA would have sold a LOT more. Take a look at Blizzard, they take their time to publish a game after they anounce it. Hell Starcraft Ghost took so long that the new XBox 360 came out, and Blizzard had to drop the project since they were making it for the 1st XBox. WWIII took a while too, and so did WOW. And how many copies has Blizzard sold?????? Millions!

The feeling I am getting is that CA has gotten a little lazy with the details. If you look at the video "Making of Total War" (is on youtube). The guy explains that they stopped doing "cut scenes" after STW because they were too much work, and they also stopped doing "Periods of time" (u know, Early Medieval, Middle, and Late)after MTW becasue they were too much work too. And we all know the AI has gotten a little dumber after each release.

CA is making a lot of improvement in some game areas, but is dropping the ball on others.

[KuKulzA]

I agree with NeoSpartan on the Blizzard games example... they work hard and their games are good and are still played and sought after for a long time (just look at Starcraft, and SC2 will be out sometime)

[Patriote]

Yeah improvements mostly on flashy stuff and graphics but dropping a lot about realism and AI intellect

I played STW lately and I can't shake the feeling of wonder I had when I caught sight of the enemy army deployed on the hill waiting for me and then the feeling of "unbelievabliness" when at least a third of his troops smashed into the side of my right wing, having been concealed in woods during all my advance

Guess I had become lazy playing dumb AI

[Intrepid Adventurer]

I played STW lately and I can't shake the feeling of wonder I had when I caught sight of the enemy army deployed on the hill waiting for me and then the feeling of "unbelievabliness" when at least a third of his troops smashed into the side of my right wing, having been concealed in woods during all my advance

Guess I had become lazy playing dumb AI

As insane as it sounds, I had the same experience when I started up S:TW some time ago. It's bizarre to think the AI has not improved all those years, no its quality has actually declined.

Anyway, this game looks awesome. I hope they put the Netherlands (would be the Republic of the United Netherlands then, I think) in, even though our game was pretty much over by the end of the 17th century. Still, TW games make for great 'what-if' experiences...

But personally I'm more looking forward to EB2, as my computer won't be able to run E:TW anyway and I don't do an Ancient History major for nothing, eh?

[Tellos Athenaios]

The Netherlands were mostly powerful before and after the time frame. And conquest total-war style only became a major issue 1870-ish onward (at least for the The Kingdom of the Netherlands). With the Netherlands becoming one of the three chief Imperialist powers; as the English more or less agreed to allow the Netherlands control over Indonesia.

[Sassem]

The Netherlands were mostly powerful before and after the time frame. And conquest total-war style only became a major issue 1870-ish onward (at least for the The Kingdom of the Netherlands). With the Netherlands becoming one of the three chief Imperialist powers; as the English more or less agreed to allow the Netherlands control over Indonesia.

Oh I think they let us because they where to scared we kicked they're "bottoms"

But thanks for the info

[Tellos Athenaios]

Uhm... the British Empire more or less dominated the world after the Napoleonic Wars. In fact, the Netherlands had to ask before getting their former possesions on Java back - and if it had been up to Thomas Raffles (the English governor after the island had been seized by the British) they sure hadn't got it back.

Partially to spite the Dutch, Thomas Raffles secretly founded the city of Singapore - which proved to be a fierce competitor in all depot trade in South East Asia. (And still is today.)

[bovi]

It's not so much a decline in AI as a lot of features being added or changed which the AI isn't rewritten to use as effectively, I think. The STW/MTW battle AI was acceptable. Then RTW introduced a new combat system which the AI doesn't handle well at all, charging generals for instance worked in STW/MTW as they were freaking tanks but they will die in any prolonged melee in RTW as any unit will score a lucky hit sometime. But other cavalry also charges hours before the infantry arrives and is destroyed before the real battle begins, this is indeed a decline in AI . Especially bad since anvil+hammer tactics wins the day extremely quickly due to the line crumbling.

Extremely powerful retraining was added, which the AI doesn't use. Morale-affecting units such as druids are introduced, the AI seems oblivious to it. Missile troops are suddenly accurate and powerful, but the AI doesn't choose its targets well. Fleeing troops are suddenly incapable of fighting at all and will be mowed down extremely quickly (you needed to watch out in STW or the routers would kill those of your men who were advancing too far), but the AI isn't trying to outmaneuver to get the human troops to rout (didn't in STW/MTW either), and when they rout it will chase them with useless infantry as its cavalry was killed hours ago anyway, disintegrating the army's cohesion. Phalanxes are introduced, relying on formation for its effectiveness, but the AI breaks open its line when attacking and will fruitlessly chase dispersing skirmishers with them.

Meh. The list goes on and on.

[Patriote]

Yeah but in STW only the Daimo, not every family members or rather sons, had a retinue of heavy cavalry and the size, 11, was fix even if you changed the units' size in the options!

I just think that they stress out a lot more in STW, at least in the game manual lol (I haven't tested that out) about the relation between cohesion and morale and a little about units' strenghts. Some elitle units were almost unbeatable by lesser troops like some Hounds of Kornus or something like belonging to the Picts faction I think, in the north of the Britain Isles in BI (can't remember what it is) which I remember seeing one unit of them who simply charged through one of my unit of roman spermen standing on the wall, soldiers being send flying everywhere and the whole unit dead after that with only a few casualties inflicted to those monsters. Or having a elite unit standing perfectly still while archer units shoot volley after volley of flaming arrows on them and not a single one being killed

But Bovi you are right, the AI had less think to deal with or making use of, making it more effective at fighting battles and acting on the strategic map.

[NeoSpartan]

Yep, I've seen some preatty impresive stuff in MTW. I haven't played STW though, but I've heard from many Vets the AI was even tougher.

I too am more exited about EB2 comming out than E:TW. Not just a PC issue, but can't wait to see the Gauls with individual looking soldiers. The clone armies look good with more "Civilized" factions.

[Tellos Athenaios]

It'll be nice for many a regional unit too. You can now reflect different ethnic backgrounds in Pantodapoi for example; and you can reflect that some members of a particular unit may have had a bit more money to spend on their gear...

[olly]

Just remembering that I enjoyed STW the most as it had better AI but, and do correct me if I am wrong (incase anyone needed an invitation on this forum), as the battlemaps were always the same for each region didn't the AI always set up the same way on each battlemap? By the end of it I knew where every ambush was coming from.

Surely this would mean the AI hasn't really improved but just it was more scripted in STW (didn't really get to play MTW for a couple of reasons)?

Anyway I would take STW campaign/battle maps any day over RTW's if it meant the old AI was back.

Still want the RTW graphics (modded by EB or RTR or another mod of comparable standard of course) though being the sucker I am for a pretty army.

[Starforge]

Sadly - putting games out for most companies is mostly (if not only) about what you can sell. I'll be suprised, actually, if E:TW is anything more than new skins, new map, new cities with a couple of obligatory new features for the reviewers to overhype.

I realise that I'm old enough to be a cynic - but they've had now 4 opportunities (If you count the BI and Kindoms expansions) and quite a few years to work on diplomacy, AI and other not so great features and have left those things relatively untouched while spending most of their time tarting up the game.

I'll buy it - to give them development money playing the longshot that one day they'll actually produce a reworked AI but, like M2TW, I'll be waiting for an EB or other quality mod to actually play it.

[-Praetor-]

Nice!

[Cybvep]

To be honest, the graphics isn't that impressive to me. The water is excellent, yes, but the ships look like made out of plastic and are too clean...

[hoom]

Agree regarding the Battle AI, with relatively few battlemaps the AI can have scripted battle-plans that make life hard on a player but these had to be removed for RTW with its thousands of semi-random generated battlemaps.

For the graphics, they do look too clean & plasticy but at least their proportions & shape look reasonably correct. Much better than any other 3d attempt at Age of Sail ships I can recall seeing.

[skuzzy]

I agree with the ship looking like a toy. But, eventually after years of frustration skins will be able to be overridden and someone will give them a not so clean look. A least the community is aware once a TW game comes out there are years of lag before you can play it enjoyably. But Blizzard definitely isn't worried about losing its fanbase, TW doesn't enjoy that same confidence. Blizzard rocks nevertheless and hardly ever disappoints (except WC3 :)

[Starforge]

Aye, the pictures are nice but kinda exactly what I would expect. People get to post a bunch of cool pictures of spectacular naval combats as a sales pitch. Here's hoping they actually give the ships some purpose to movement and some logic to their actions. Can you imagine them moving about as they do in RTW or M2TW? Blockades, keeping shipping lanes open, piracy, Letter of Marque, etc all would be great additions but only if coded a bit better than what we see the games doing now.

My guess is that, like RTW and M2TW, it's in the multiplayer or standalone historical battles that those options will shine and not on the campaign map. Here's hoping I'm wrong .

[NeoSpartan]

I agree with the ship looking like a toy. But, eventually after years of frustration skins will be able to be overridden and someone will give them a not so clean look. A least the community is aware once a TW game comes out there are years of lag before you can play it enjoyably. But Blizzard definitely isn't worried about losing its fanbase, TW doesn't enjoy that same confidence. Blizzard rocks nevertheless and hardly ever disappoints (except WC3 :)

Well.... its my hypothesis, but I think IF CA took thier time to deliver games, and took their time in the Beta testing like Blizzard, then CA would not have a problem keeping their fan base alive. Hell, I think is the fact that people can MOD RTW and MTW2 that CA has a fanbase alive. (here I am speaking for myself, I probably would have stopped playing RTW long ago and would not recommend this game to anyone if not for EB)

[Tellos Athenaios]

Somehow I am still disappointed even though I expected the Dutch to be in as well...

[Cybvep]

What I don't understand is the CA's ignorance regarding modding. They are the masters of marketing (just look at their trailers and previews, they all scream: "BUY ME!"), yet they seem to underestimate the power of modding. I mean, modding can do wonders - Morrowind was alive for 3-4 years after its release due to mods and even the press praised the editor shipped with the game. RTW would be a much better game without hardcoded ****. Some modding tools, reasonable game modability and I think that the sales would be much higher.