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Thread: Religion

  1. #1
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Religion

    Just wonder how everyone thinks this will be implemented. It should have a pretty big impact on the game, and cause a lot of rebellions, revolts over rights to the crown (such as the Jacobites in Scotland) etc. If it is a world map, the religious system will have to be extended quite a lot over that of M2TW. There's Catholic, Protestant (and the different branches), Orthodox, Islam, Buddhism, Hindiusm, Paganism etc.

    I hope religion causes some civil wars as well. Like the Jacobite Uprising in Scotland in 1745, trying to get the Catholic Prince Charlie on the UK's throne, with a Protestant King at the time. Jacobite soldiers would be really unique as well, depending on their Highland charge and great swords rather than pikes and muskets.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  2. #2
    Amazing Mothman Member icek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    I dont know about religion but if we talk about rebels then i hope there will be an event at the end of the game with creating Duché de Varsovie (Principality of warsaw) that will make some problems for Gerries and Russians.

  3. #3
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Religion in RTW:BI and M2TW is one of the things that actually seems to work pretty well as it stands. If they kept the current implementation style and simply added a few more religions on for the various factions, I would expect that it would integrate relatively painlessly.

    They definitely need to bring back civil wars though. This is the era of the Jacobites, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, Mexican Independence, Greek Independence, the 1848 revolts, the US Civil War, and several dozen more that I won't bother to list. With Empire comes conflict with those peoples who have been colonized. That simply must be represented in the game for it to make any sense.


  4. #4
    Amazing Mothman Member icek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    not really, the game end date if i read correct is 1820. No Custer, no little bighorn , no North -South. But whole lot oportunities for expansion :)
    Last edited by icek; 08-22-2007 at 14:27.

  5. #5
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    I would imagine that religion would play a much less significant role in the game than in the medieval setting. Economic activity would be more of a driving force behind the game - e.g. britain didnt invade india in order to spread christianity - it was to make money.

    colonialism != crusades.

  6. #6
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by icek
    not really, the game end date if i read correct is 1820. No Custer, no little bighorn , no North -South. But whole lot oportunities for expansion :)
    1700 to 1820? That's a pretty short game.


  7. #7
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    1700 to 1820? That's a pretty short game.
    That depends on how many turns per year.

  8. #8
    Fredericus Erlach Member Stuperman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveybaby
    That depends on how many turns per year.
    I think that TC was talking historically, Rtw covered almost 300 years, M2tw more than 400 and ETW will cover just 120....

    I hope they get rid of religion, the crusade mechanic is fun, but makes it really hard/scary/unappealing to be a non catholic faction. and it royally screws the orthodox factions.
    Fredericus Erlach, Overseer of Genoa, Count of Ajaccio in exile, 4th elector of Bavaria.


  9. #9
    Member Member Trax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    1700 - 1820 is fine with me.
    From the first years of the bayonet till the last years of the flintlock gun.

    From 1700-1815 constant wars between great coalitions. After 1815 things cooled down considerably.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuperman
    I think that TC was talking historically, Rtw covered almost 300 years, M2tw more than 400 and ETW will cover just 120....

    I hope they get rid of religion, the crusade mechanic is fun, but makes it really hard/scary/unappealing to be a non catholic faction. and it royally screws the orthodox factions.
    I personally prefer the smaller focus, maybe we'll get actual years back? No need to make it turns due to incredibly long time span.

  11. #11
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuperman
    I think that TC was talking historically, Rtw covered almost 300 years, M2tw more than 400 and ETW will cover just 120....
    It all a matter of how much happens during that period. Its a pretty well known fact that as time goes on progress becomes more rapid - which is why the civ series, for example, actually changes the number of years that each turn takes. In the stone age it can be hundreds of years per turn, and by the modern age its only 1 year per turn, yet the rate at which interesting stuff happens (both in terms of technology and change of control across the map) remains roughly constant.

    The number of years is irrelevant, its how much stuff you pack in there each turn that matters. You need time to use each technological innovation for a bit before the next one comes along. You need a balance between getting around the map quickly enough to keep you from getting bored, yet still have time to see the enemy coming and react accordingly.

    If there was a total war style game covering the period of world wars I and II, it would only need 40 years from start to finish. You'd probably have 1 or 2 months per turn in that situation, but you'd still have plenty to keep you busy, because things moved so much faster during these periods than in roman, medival, or even napoleonic times.

    I hope they get rid of religion, the crusade mechanic is fun, but makes it really hard/scary/unappealing to be a non catholic faction. and it royally screws the orthodox factions.
    Agreed. Any crusade type gameplay is just going to seem totally out of place in napoleonic times. But, as the article linked to in one of the other threads states, its a completely new game engine, from the ground up.
    Last edited by Daveybaby; 08-22-2007 at 16:58.

  12. #12
    Witch Smeller Persuivant Member Fate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuperman
    I think that TC was talking historically, Rtw covered almost 300 years, M2tw more than 400 and ETW will cover just 120....
    Yes, but you must keep in mind, as aforementioned, turns per year (i wouldnt be suprised it it were 4 or more), and the fact that there would be an extraordinary amount of technological advancements in a relatively short time.

    We could very well end up with month turns to show emphasis on the speed that things happenned, with the advanced technology. Where as in RTW and M2 it would take a considereable amount of time for an army to cross the map, where as in Empire, things would happen much faster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
    Hmm... if the AI was programmed to emulate the most stupid Generals in history, that would explain a lot.

    "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say "Ni" at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land! Nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this point in time."

  13. #13

    Default Re: Religion

    Agreed. Any crusade type gameplay is just going to seem totally out of place in napoleonic times. But, as the article linked to in one of the other threads states, its a completely new game engine, from the ground up.
    I don't know much about this period of history, but I guess they could do something similiar like "expeditionary forces". Or something...I don't fancy going half way round the world with units just to get say India. I supposed one solution would be to make ships move alot further so you can sail like as fast as a crusade, but then I guess you can just hop around from port to port if they go really far in one turn without risking them in open water :/

    It'll be a delicate balancing act I guess, interesting.

  14. #14
    manniskōn barnan Member SaFe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Imagine Napoleon marching from France to Russia in 10 years.

    I always had the opinion that the lenghty travel times were frustrating.

    RTW:Marching from Rome to the forest of Germani in 3 or 4 years - unrealistic
    M2: Marching from Rome to Jerusalem 5 or 6 years - more unrealistic even with ship transport.

    Perhaps they solved the probelm this time...

  15. #15
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Fate
    Yes, but you must keep in mind, as aforementioned, turns per year (i wouldnt be suprised it it were 4 or more), and the fact that there would be an extraordinary amount of technological advancements in a relatively short time.
    Actually I think it will be 2 turns per year. CA is of the opinion that >250 turns in the sweet spot for a campaign. So 120 years *2 (turns per year) =240 turns for a campagin.
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  16. #16
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    2 turns per year seems ideal.

    On religion, although there were no Crusade type expeditions during the ETW timeframe, there were still several religion-related civil wars. For example, as I said earlier, the Jacobites in the UK. Conflict between Catholic and Protestants will have to be well represented.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  17. #17
    Yorkist Senior Member NagatsukaShumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    A smaller time frame didn't kill Shogun, in fact it was more focused. Empire looks like it will be a great game, although alot depends on how the AI handles the next step up when it hasn't entirely adapted to the previous revolution, who knows, I will buy it and give it a chance regardless.

    Religion will probably feature in the same way it does now, there will just be more of it, which is fine by me to be entirely honest.
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  18. #18
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    I'm not too keen on the 18th century, 3/4 of the world map with only 10 playable factions. However, that can be modded and is eclipsed by the new engine! Oh, joy!

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  19. #19
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Well 120 years are two turns per year is 240 turns (obviously) which is around that ideal turn number they worked out for M2TW...

  20. #20
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    I'm not too keen on the 18th century, 3/4 of the world map with only 10 playable factions. However, that can be modded and is eclipsed by the new engine! Oh, joy!
    10 playable factions doesen't mean only 10 factions, it means 10 factions which are sort of meant to be played by the player, and probably at least 10-20 other factions which are unplayable, but can probably be unlocked just as easily as before (by editing text files).

    But it can't be only 3/4 of the world, because in order to portray the trade you (and as the trade in India seems to be going to be important) you have to have atleast the whole of Eurasia, America and Africa (you need Africa to get to India).
    Last edited by Randarkmaan; 08-22-2007 at 19:45.
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  21. #21
    Research Shinobi Senior Member Tamur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    The ideal number of turns for a game is given by the following formula:

    Given that:
    • r = the distance to the nearest pub (in metres)
    • s = the average change in bladder volume per turn (in millilitres)
    • g = a random number between 0 and 1
    • PoTTY = possible turns till you're-done


    Then:

    PoTTY = (r + s) * g + 25

    Very ingenious, these folks at CA. Note: this formula was only obtained after great risk to life and limb, do not divulge to the public!
    Last edited by Tamur; 08-22-2007 at 20:08.
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  22. #22
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    If you read at the .com, it says only 3 continents are included. Europe, Americas, and India I would guess.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  23. #23
    Yorkist Senior Member NagatsukaShumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr
    If you read at the .com, it says only 3 continents are included. Europe, Americas, and India I would guess.
    This is the most confusing part, purely because I would love to know how the map will look if it doesn't include Africa.
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  24. #24
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by NagatsukaShumi
    This is the most confusing part, purely because I would love to know how the map will look if it doesn't include Africa.
    It would certainly make getting to/from india much easier.

  25. #25
    Cynic Senior Member sapi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveybaby
    It would certainly make getting to/from india much easier.


    Imagine Napoleon marching from France to Russia in 10 years.

    I always had the opinion that the lenghty travel times were frustrating.

    RTW:Marching from Rome to the forest of Germani in 3 or 4 years - unrealistic
    M2: Marching from Rome to Jerusalem 5 or 6 years - more unrealistic even with ship transport.

    Perhaps they solved the probelm this time...
    Hopefully the increased focus on navies has let CA give them a realistic movement distance; which should fix some of those problems...
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  26. #26

    Default Re: Religion

    I think religion should treated as natural disaster in this era, a bit like the inquisitors in M2TW. If it appears you get strife, rebellions and your cultural and technological development is slowed down.

    It's the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason!

    Though in reality it never went away and played its usual baleful role in instigating major bloodshed.

    It is worth noting that for example in India the British ruled with relatively few troops by leaving social and political structures alone as much as possible. It was only when they got all "onwards christian soldiers" in the Victorian age that missionaries really started to appear in India. At about which time the Indian Mutiny happened - go figure.

    In Quebec, the Brits left well alone and things ticked over nicely without major interruptions.

    Whereas in Ireland where they interferd drastically in society and religion it all went wrong from the start.
    Last edited by Freedom Onanist; 08-25-2007 at 00:14.
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  27. #27
    Undercover Lurker Member Mailman653's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90532
    See this thread, religion is gone, politics are in.

  28. #28
    Celtic Cataphracts!!!! Member The Celt's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Religion

    Concerning religion IGN said in a preview that.....oh never mind, Mailman beat me to it.
    I don't like this idea as it probably means they're gonna clump religious sects and divisions together.(Like they have so far really. "Islam" "Orthodox" "Catholic", possibly Protestant, and thats it.)I hope they at least divide Islam properly this time, as this is really the era where the Sunni vs. Shia conflict begins.(As it was an important aspect of the Safavid-Ottoman conflict.)Plus their's the Shieks, who also show up in this period.(And consequently go completely ape shit on the Mughals, Maharatas, and the British.)

    Personally, I wish they'd include Africa as it provides a passage to India(or to the west, if your thinking of bringing Hindu/Muslim soldiers to the new world.)and the European powers were quite involved in that continent as well.(*cough*slavetrade*cough*)
    Last edited by The Celt; 08-25-2007 at 02:18.
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr
    If you read at the .com, it says only 3 continents are included. Europe, Americas, and India I would guess.
    India isn't a continent, it's part of Asia.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Celt
    Personally, I wish they'd include Africa as it provides a passage to India(or to the west, if your thinking of bringing Hindu/Muslim soldiers to the new world.)and the European powers were quite involved in that continent as well.(*cough*slavetrade*cough*)
    Maybe the slave trade is why they don't want to include Africa, though they allowed slavery in RTW.
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  30. #30
    Undercover Lurker Member Mailman653's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by uanime5
    India isn't a continent, it's part of Asia.



    Maybe the slave trade is why they don't want to include Africa, though they allowed slavery in RTW.
    But during that era, slavery wasin't entirely about color, it was mostly the people of conquered nations who were turned to slaves and sent to Rome.

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