factions?special units? Strategies?

[Mailman653]

Wooooo....! Continental army finally. My guess for special units would be tons of militia for the Americans and don't forget Hessian troops for England.

[Zenicetus]

Speaking of special units... I'm wondering how they'll handle Marine-type units for boarding actions in naval combat. Will it be a regular infantry unit, or a special Marine unit that can only be used on ships? I'm guessing a special unit to keep the numbers down. You can't have a regular stack with thousands of soldiers on a single ship, but maybe they'll have a single stack spread out among the fleet or something, if they use regular infantry. Will you recruit Marines separately, or will you get an automatic number related to the size of the ship, the way it's done in the abstract in RTW and M2TW? It will be interesting to see how they handle this.

[NagatsukaShumi]

I'm wondering if that will be true with this one though, unless you just ignore sea power and the western side of the map. The choice of playable factions seems to be based on who had major force projection with navies during the period (with the curious omission of the Dutch??). That makes sense, as a showcase for the new naval combat engine, and it's probably why Russia didn't make the list.

It will be interesting to see if those other unlockable factions can actually get access to the shipyards, navigation tech, and ship types that the playable factions have, or if they're blocked out of advancement due to the tech tree... something like the situation with M2TW with the Byzantines or Scotland in the late game, with respect to gunpowder.

If they are blocked from major sea power, then maybe the modders can try their hand at an alternate history mod, where these other factions can get their ships. Or maybe the game is winnable as, say, Russia if you just ignore sea power.

Depends if theres anything like Glorious Achievements mode, in which case playing a small nation with no real navy power would still be winnable on land.

Either way, I can't see CA not giving them ships because even if your not them, you'll need to fight them for it to be anywhere enar sensible imo, even if they are weak ships in comparison, they should be able to defend themselves someway or another.

If not, the modders will undoubtedly help out.

[Polemists]

I just hope I don't have to do the win as one of the five factions to unlock other factions thing again.

I am more curious about the Factions that can occur during the game. I mean obviously American and India are british colonies but what if one of the other colonies beats back it's Colonial Overlord.

Personally I look forward to the major euro powers and Russia, still I wonder how they plan to make Napolean as powerful as he was in real life. I mean I can't see the AI being that tactical. Maybe it will be like Mongols, huge stacks of musketmen just keep popping up in france haha.

[Zenicetus]

Personally I look forward to the major euro powers and Russia, still I wonder how they plan to make Napolean as powerful as he was in real life. I mean I can't see the AI being that tactical. Maybe it will be like Mongols, huge stacks of musketmen just keep popping up in france haha.

Well, none of the TW games have been historical re-enactment games. There are some scripted events like the Mongols, and the discovery of gunpowder. But the design has always been something of a sandbox, where anything can happen depending on interaction between the AI factions and the player. It begins as a "snapshot" that's more or less accurate for the starting point, and then it evolves from there in unexpected directions.... like the Pope going on a rampage sometimes in M2TW, conquering vast territory.

So I don't think we need to see Napoleon pop up in every Empire campaign game. That would be boring.

[Lord Winter]

Were the Dutch not in a union with Britain in 1700?

Yes, but William of Orange dies in a year so it's preaty useless. From their they each go their seperate ways although they are still allied.

[IsItStillThere]

I'm surprised america would be in. the time period is supposed to be early 1700's to 1800's, so the game starts well before there was a USA.

A lot of the early game would be colonizing the americas. What if France got the vast majority of what is now the eastern US rather than England? Would there have been an American Revolution?

This would all have to be handled very carefully and circumspectly to avoid laughably unhistorical situations.

Now, I'm happy they choose this era, it has great possibilities both on land AND at sea. I just hope CA gives this title some serious thought.

[pevergreen]

Mughals are in.

[Mailman653]

I'm surprised america would be in. the time period is supposed to be early 1700's to 1800's, so the game starts well before there was a USA.

A lot of the early game would be colonizing the americas. What if France got the vast majority of what is now the eastern US rather than England? Would there have been an American Revolution?

This would all have to be handled very carefully and circumspectly to avoid laughably unhistorical situations.

Now, I'm happy they choose this era, it has great possibilities both on land AND at sea. I just hope CA gives this title some serious thought.

Yeah, but TW isn't 100% about historical accuracy, it gives you the tools and the situations but it doesn't always follow history. It's like a puzzle, you get the pieces but its up to you to make the picture.

http://www.shacknews.com/images/imag...c3b294bd3a.jpg
Anyone else noticed the tripple decker US ship? Must be for ballencing issues since the US never had first rate ships, more like Frigates and Corvettes.

[IsItStillThere]

Anyone else noticed the tripple decker US ship? Must be for ballencing issues since the US never had first rate ships, more like Frigates and Corvettes.

This is the kind of thing I was referring to earlier. The USA was never a first rate naval power until the 20th century. Nor was it ever an empire (it did have imperialistic tendencies, but again that wasn't until after the era the game covers).

I think it might be better to have the game cover 1650-1770 or thereabouts and eliminate the need to deal with the tricky american revolution thing. It just seems like they are asking for trouble otherwise.

This is supposed to be a total war game, not civilization (where the souix can build a nuke or sent a spaceship to alpha centauri!). That kind of thing has its place in the civ series, no need to bring it into the total war games. As far as I know, all the previous TW games the units available to each faction were available (or at least close to what was available) historically.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Fact is, there is a large market of American gamers out there. They are dying to play as Americans and they do not want to be told that in reality their navy was a lightweight and their army would be no more then a speed bump for just about any other army. Thus reality needs to be altered a fair bit.

Uh-oh, I'm going to get flamed for saying that.

[Mailman653]

Fact is, there is a large market of American gamers out there. They are dying to play as Americans and they do not want to be told that in reality their navy was a lightweight and their army would be no more then a speed bump for just about any other army. Thus reality needs to be altered a fair bit.

Uh-oh, I'm going to get flamed for saying that.

Maybe, maybe not. The US army had its moments of brilliance, but overall they suffered from disunity at times and poor leadership/lack of discipline in some occasions. Just look at some of the battles that occured during the War of 1812. Though I believe this topic should go in another part of the forum.

[BadGenome]

As far as I know, all the previous TW games the units available to each faction were available (or at least close to what was available) historically.

/throws bees at you

[pevergreen]

There will be no flaming.

[Tratorix]

I have to agree with Elmar. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the americans have a lot of elite troops when historically they only really had militia troops (at the time). This would have to be done for balancing issues as well. Unless they really improve the AI, I don't see it beating back the British empire with rag-tag bands of militia.

[pevergreen]

Thats the point isnt it? Every campaign is different. Total War lets you create your own history, not follow it.

[andrewt]

It's 1700-1850, so all units from 1700-1850 are available. Then, you can change history and gets units earlier. It's like the Marian reforms in RTW, they could happen earlier based on how hard the player teched. By around 1850, America had some decent units. They'll probably be crappy versions of civil war era units to reflect being a decade earlier.

[Zenicetus]

Fact is, there is a large market of American gamers out there. They are dying to play as Americans and they do not want to be told that in reality their navy was a lightweight and their army would be no more then a speed bump for just about any other army. Thus reality needs to be altered a fair bit.

Uh-oh, I'm going to get flamed for saying that.

Not from me, and I'm an American gamer. I know my history... that's somewhat rare over here in the general population (not to mention our Fearless Leader), but hopefully a knowledge of history is a little more common with our TW players.

I'm just curious about how they'll handle this, since I haven't seen any indication that the game has more than one choice of starting period. The game can't handicap an American player with a late start vs. the other factions, so how does that work? If you choose America, do you start as a British colony faction on good terms with the crown (which is another faction), and then you can rebel whenever you want? You won't have as many resources to start with (especially military), but you'll have HUGE potential for economic expansion based on trade and local resources. So maybe that's what they're doing.

The TW series has always mixed history with the idea of a sandbox game where you can move in non-historical directions from the starting conditions. So if the player has enough time before rebelling from Britain, they can probably build up a strong army and navy. In other words, the revolution doesn't necessarily have to occur in 1775. It can be earlier if you're ready, or later if you want to build up more strength (again, just guessing here that they might doing it that way). The relative strength of the actual, historic army and navy in the colonies are not all that relevant with that type of game design.

[Matt_Lane]

I'm just curious about how they'll handle this, since I haven't seen any indication that the game has more than one choice of starting period. The game can't handicap an American player with a late start vs. the other factions, so how does that work? If you choose America, do you start as a British colony faction on good terms with the crown (which is another faction), and then you can rebel whenever you want?

Quote from CA (many thanks ICEK for the link);

"CA are going to enable players to play as the newly colonised Americas, fighting for their independence from the British. The revolutionary war began in 1775 and continued on until 1783 - the tail end of Empire's period, but that doesn't matter. "

So it does look as if the player can decide the timing of the American revolution.

[A Norseman]

Yea, Anyway back to the 10 factions, I understand it so that many people thinks that the 10 factions ingame will be the only factions..
Thats wrong, there will be around 50 factions ingame, 10 are playable..
Alto fear for my homeland beeing unplayable, i am shure it is ingame. so that when i am finished with my campain as the Britts, ill mod Denmark - Norway into the game..

[pevergreen]

Undoubtably, as in the last two games, you will be able to mod factions in easily.

[IsItStillThere]

Fact is, there is a large market of American gamers out there. They are dying to play as Americans and they do not want to be told that in reality their navy was a lightweight and their army would be no more then a speed bump for just about any other army. Thus reality needs to be altered a fair bit.

No, you're not getting any flames from me

I would just remind CA about how well TW shogun did. No american units in there! Ditto with the medieval games.

Wouldn't it be funny if the americans were treated like rebels (which they were!). In other words, they just pop up around 1775 (ala the mongols in M2TW), non-player controllable.

Look out, its the Yankee horde!!!!

[woad&fangs]

The Americans will be like the barbarians from Rome: Total War. They will be good at using cover, hiding, ambushing, and they will have some strong units that might attack without orders. The U.S. didn't have much of a navy until about 1800 and even then it wasn't anything special.

[Mailman653]

It just occured to me that another special unit that England should have is Torie militia. This unit should only be avaiable when the English are in North America.

[kambiz]

Iran under Zand Dynasty ???

[IrishArmenian]

Weren't Tories Irish highwaymen who robbed English nationals?
That wouldn't be a bad unit for rebel stacks in Eire.

[IsItStillThere]

It just occured to me that another special unit that England should have is Torie militia.

There were definitely loyalist units raised by the Brits in the revolution. I forget if they were called tories or something else, but I know what you mean.

I believe that the estimate as to the general feeling of the colonists when the war broke out was that about a third of them were revolutionaries, a third were loyalists, and a third were indifferent either way.

Given that, its absolutely amazing the revolution succeeded.

[hoom]

USA never had 3 deck, first rate ships? How about Pennsylvania
Started in 1916 but delayed by budget till 1837 & never actually used as a ship of the line.

[Mailman653]

USA never had 3 deck, first rate ships? How about Pennsylvania
Started in 1916 but delayed by budget till 1837 & never actually used as a ship of the line.

Quite a find there, she's a beauty from that picture.

[Incongruous]

Weren't Tories Irish highwaymen who robbed English nationals?
That wouldn't be a bad unit for rebel stacks in Eire.

Sorry, I just read that and laughed.