Shogun

[Reverend Joe]

O God, my heart bursts with the feral wildness of these new things.

Whoever heard of such wild things as strategic armies, going where you please, of wars at sea, of 3-dimensional soldiers?

I wonder now, shall the old ways be forgotten?

Once, all we had was a computerized bard game, with the occasional interlude of 3-dimensional battles with 2-dimensional soldiers. It seemed simple even at the time; and yet it remains one of my favorite games of all time. I recall first playing it, while I was sick with a fever, and it was the only light in my entire day: having another day off to play Shogun: Total War.

I wonder now... has the game become too complex? and this is a serious question... did we really need to go that far beyond Shogun -- or, at a stretch, Medeival?

...Seriously, all whiskey aside, who really needs all this crap?

[Freedom Onanist]

O God, my heart bursts with the feral wildness of these new things.

Whoever heard of such wild things as strategic armies, going where you please, of wars at sea, of 3-dimensional soldiers?

I wonder now, shall the old ways be forgotten?

Once, all we had was a computerized bard game, with the occasional interlude of 3-dimensional battles with 2-dimensional soldiers. It seemed simple even at the time; and yet it remains one of my favorite games of all time. I recall first playing it, while I was sick with a fever, and it was the only light in my entire day: having another day off to play Shogun: Total War.

I wonder now... has the game become too complex? and this is a serious question... did we really need to go that far beyond Shogun -- or, at a stretch, Medeival?

...Seriously, all whiskey aside, who really needs all this crap?

I'm partially with you on that one. If you look at some of the things fans are asking for it does look like it could be a CIV-a-like. I stopped playing that game ages ago because it is little more than an excercise in micromanagement now.

The thing is, CA are fairly responsive to the community and of course they need to stay in business which implies bringing out a new product every year or so. So I don't see how they really have a choice.

What would be nice and is never done would be to take a game Shogun and completely update the graphics to today's standards but leave the gameplay completly alone.

Imagine if they did that with a game like Elite, now there was a game as well....

[Daveybaby]

Is that really all you people want? The same game repeated over and over again but with better graphics each time?

I have not the words.

[Freedom Onanist]

Is that really all you people want? The same game repeated over and over again but with better graphics each time?

I have not the words.

No it isn't all I want, it is one of the things I'd like yes, alongside the new games. Just saying that there is a classic game that would look good if it was updated (as a patch kind of thing). Of course they aren't going to do it ecasue they would have to charge for it.

[Furious Mental]

"who really needs all this crap"

Well it isn't "crap" to me. To me it is "gameplay". If you want a game minus this "crap", play Shogun.

[caravel]

Is that really all you people want? The same game repeated over and over again but with better graphics each time?

I have not the words.

Well it worked for Rugby, Tennis, Football and Chess, and on a computer games level, it seems to work for FPS games. There are few original games, most borrow heavily from pervious titles, and a good formula doesn't need to continuosly evolve. It simply needs refining up to a point.

I don't think the issue is same game repeated over and over, but more so building on and enhancing the original total war games without transforming the genre to conform to the standards and consumer base of CA's Strategy/RTS making competitors - which is what has happened.

[Noir]

Its hard to say how much TW has really evolved. It feels more like playing with the same parameters in giving a different "feel" everytime rather than making a different game.

ETW is meant to deal with that i guess by introducing the naval battles. My wish is that it doesn't do that on the expense of the land battles. CA is marketing their land battles as state of the art and yet they actually are less well balanced and complex than before due to poor effort in playtesting, due to throwing in too many parameters for variety and visuals that make it more difficult to get a better gameplay, and finally due to streamlining the game and make it accessible to all ages.

I agree with Cambyses that a good formula needs not be altered, however CA has crossed over that long time ago in a way. They still keep the core of the game but strive everytime for a different flavor as they know that this will sell the games and not good gameplay.

Its clear from the posters here and elsewhere that few people want TW to be chess - it is a pc game and it has to comply to the rules of the market for pc games - as CA wisely realised and pursued.

Wisely for their own sake of course.

[Galapagos]

I could say that the "crap" is Shogun and MTW not the new games.CA is not that stupid to remake older games which are simple and shallow.This would bring their profits down.

[Zenicetus]

Its hard to say how much TW has really evolved. It feels more like playing with the same parameters in giving a different "feel" everytime rather than making a different game.

ETW is meant to deal with that i guess by introducing the naval battles. My wish is that it doesn't do that on the expense of the land battles.

Well, they're adding at least two new elements to land battles that should be interesting: capturable buildings on the tactical battlefield, and capturable (or maybe just destroyable?) structures on the strategic map, so that each province doesn't have just a single strategic target like it does now. That will move the game even further away from a simple Risk-style game map. Both sound good to me, but only if the AI can handle it. One would hope that CA wouldn't attempt those changes if the AI couldn't pull it off, but given prior history.... well, we'll just have to wait and see.

[doc_bean]

Is that really all you people want? The same game repeated over and over again but with better graphics each time?

I have not the words.

Well it works for Castlevania, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Phoenix Wright, Zelda, Mario, not too mention all those sports games.

Personally I think there should eb room for both, remakes with improvements that don't make the gameplay radically different (like say, the 3D world map with the new movement system) and games that actually do 'new' things.

[Matt_Lane]

Well it works for Castlevania, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Phoenix Wright, Zelda, Mario, not too mention all those sports games.

Personally I think there should eb room for both, remakes with improvements that don't make the gameplay radically different (like say, the 3D world map with the new movement system) and games that actually do 'new' things.

The problem for Total War remakes is that they follow a historical plot line where as the titles you have mentioned above are free to adapt and develop their game mechanics to a variety of plot lines keeping them fresh. Do you think Medieval War could be done a third time successfully? To drop the games historical content would move it into the fantasy genre, not that I have anything against fantasy games, I know some perfectly well adjusted people who play fantasy games, it just wouldn't be my cup of tea.

[Dexter]

Hy ...
Well, i wont tell you what u should like, but for me at least graphics are not as important as the "felling" of the game.
For defence of shogun, yes every clan had the same units but the idea was to have the player think how to defeat the enemy, not just take the urban cohort and hack and slash all the enemy.
I will not write down all wich i dont like in games. It is pointless after all.
Just think about it this way >>> is it worth to buy a PC whit all the high tech gadgets just to play a game that uses high tech graphics, ... and that`s it ... ??? Well for me it is not.
In shogun the AI could make me . Maybe i`m a lame player and this post should be ignored.

P.S.: I still think of Shogun as my nr 1

[Vuk]

O God, my heart bursts with the feral wildness of these new things.

Whoever heard of such wild things as strategic armies, going where you please, of wars at sea, of 3-dimensional soldiers?

I wonder now, shall the old ways be forgotten?

Once, all we had was a computerized bard game, with the occasional interlude of 3-dimensional battles with 2-dimensional soldiers. It seemed simple even at the time; and yet it remains one of my favorite games of all time. I recall first playing it, while I was sick with a fever, and it was the only light in my entire day: having another day off to play Shogun: Total War.

I wonder now... has the game become too complex? and this is a serious question... did we really need to go that far beyond Shogun -- or, at a stretch, Medeival?

...Seriously, all whiskey aside, who really needs all this crap?

lol, that is like saying why play video games when you have Chess? Who needs crap like BF2?

ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Vuk