Sometimes, like when people are shooting at you or Iranians are approaching, it's better to shoot first.
CR
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Sometimes, like when people are shooting at you or Iranians are approaching, it's better to shoot first.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
That's not a very good idea if allies are standing in front of you, now is it?Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Did I say everytime? Or did I say sometimes?
Sheesh.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Well, this thread is about friendly fire, if you wasn't thinking of such cases, what did your statement add to the thread?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Oh, gee, I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about shooting first and asking questions later. You know, like the title of the bloomin thread said!
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Its an unfortunate thing that friendly fire occurs, and isn't just Americans killing allies, more often than not its Americans killing Americans. Some guy gets jumpy and starts firing on some guy in the distance carrying a Weapon, and then the rest get all jumpy...
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
That's my reading of it as well. It's all well and good us sat here on our swivel chairs posting on a games forum, however something is badly amiss here.Its an unfortunate thing that friendly fire occurs, and isn't just Americans killing allies, more often than not its Americans killing Americans. Some guy gets jumpy and starts firing on some guy in the distance carrying a Weapon, and then the rest get all jumpy...
Training? Tactics? Logistics? Language?
IIRC more UK troops were killed by 'coalition' (aka USA) that by Saddam.
Surely more can be done?
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
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Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
I would say better liaison, much better communciation, better target recognition training, more work on map reading. For both the US and the UK.
"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"
"The English are a strange people....They came here in the morning, looked at the wall, walked over it, killed the garrison and returned to breakfast. What can withstand them?"
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
About four times as many IRRC. Slypsy has the right of it, it all comes down to training.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
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Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Yes more can be done, domestically this must be fueling more talk of withdrawl from the theatre overall (iraq and afghanistan).
Thats what can be done, its the best overall solution for all involved on many levels. Untill that happens, logistics seems the best way forward as communication is key.
There is no doubt in my mind that the men and women on the ground over there, no matter thier coalition country are highly trained, they have just been over there to long in a half assed manner.
There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.
Sua Sponte
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Communication is key... but more than that its having the discipline to actually Identify Your Target before firing. Its all well and good to say that had we known you guys were going to be in the sector we wouldn't have fired, but what happens when those soldiers come under heavy fire or decide to reroute around a target and some Jack Hole in the Distance immediately thinks 'Taliban!' I think some Sergeants and Officers need a lesson in using a Handy Tool that most soldiers come with: A Binocular...
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Blue on Blue = Leadership failure.
Every time.
Whether it's rocks, sticks, bayonets, M16's, mortars, artillery, aerial bombing, whatever.
Some leader, somewhere, screwed up. Wrong map coordinates are the usual suspects, whether transmitted or received, or re-transmitted.
I offer my deepest condolences, however miserably inadequate, to the families and countrymen of the dead soldiers.
That this regretable accident was unintentional goes without saying. Nevertheless, we all recognize that such accidents are preventable.
Scant solace that it is, I promise that the screw-up, whoever he is, will lose not only his career, but also his freedom. We can do no less.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
I fear you are too optimistic, old buddy. It is not your honour code that informs your government.Scant solace that it is, I promise that the screw-up, whoever he is, will lose not only his career, but also his freedom. We can do no less.
So far, the US government has been unwilling to co-operate with UK inquiries, contributing almost no relevant evidence and rarely allowing the servicemen involved to be questioned. Information is not offered to a valued partner, but hidden as if from the enemy.
This position has been defended by the usual "national security" argument and the claim that the US has already conducted an inquiry of its own. And no, you don't need to see the report, everything is fine, trust us.
The servicemen involved have invariably been found to have been promoted or otherwise left untouched. This may well reflect on your other point, that the leadership is more culpable, but there is no evidence that anyone has been addressed at any other level either.
Since the British forces never get to know what actually happened, never see anyone punished/reprimanded, never see any signs that anyone has learned any lessons even, then you can understand why each time this happens again, the reaction tends to be angry.
Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 08-26-2007 at 16:22. Reason: Spelling
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Albert Camus "Noces"
Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
Give him a medal and a government position.Scant solace that it is, I promise that the screw-up, whoever he is, will lose not only his career, but also his freedom. We can do no less.
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Re: 'They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers
So how can you shoot first when the other one is already shooting at you?
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