Napoleonic Wars

**Marshal Murat** · 09-02-2007, 04:25

lite
hehe. It's like American beer.

I have to say that how skirmishers work currently would probably fulfill the requirements. While they did act as individuals, they were 'created' for the purpose of
1. Shielding the leading battalions
2. Harassing artillery positions
3. Ambushing or flanking enemy soldiers

While the Green Jackets might be different, unfortunately the

pikemen didn't switch to swords after impact,
gunners were supposed to fire from within the pikemen formations,
Portuguese didn't conquer Spain and half of France.

but that's how it worked out in M2TW.

I also have to disagree with the marketing of the Lordz game, for personal reasons. It is a Napoleonic thread and with the Lordz post, I feel I should respond. It's my opinion and I'll state it.

**Incongruous** · 09-02-2007, 04:43

Ok, I don't really get that post but.
Skirmishers as they were in the 18th century were a rather new concept in large scale battles. They need to be able to work well in all terrain areas, not simply standing in a line within a forest as they wood in a field. That would be sad.

**Marshal Murat** · 09-02-2007, 05:28

I'm saying that skirmishers in general (voltiguers from the top of my head) were there to simply to harass the enemy formations and artillery pieces. While rangers and Green Jackets would indeed require a better AI to control them, I would inquire as to when and where they should be used. If you have Rangers, what use are they against 3 battalions of regulars? If you can break them up or disorganize them, then great, now you can use the 2 battalions that you held in reserve to destroy the battalions...unless you only brought the rangers to work on the enemy.

Don't woods already provide a defense bonus to those inside? If the soldiers are in the woods, then they could have a formation similar to those in 'hidden' or 'stealthy' position, but even if they fire, they don't reveal themselves.

The examples are intended to state that while pikemen aren't supposed to switch to swords, the gunners are supposed to be able to mingle in the pikemen and fire, and the Portuguese aren't supposed to conquer spain and half of France, but they didn't, and it was disappointing.

**Incongruous** · 09-02-2007, 10:03

No, Skirmishers were not simply for marching forward in large groups as cover.
In America especially they were used (first by the French then British) to move out of formation through dens forests and engage the enemy in a very fluid fire fight. If you should hide a battalion of Skirmishers within a tree line and have them fire at opposing troops of the line, they would be a very hard thing to overcome without the use of similar troops. Something that Austria's enemies learnt in the Seven Years War.

**Darkarbiter** · 09-02-2007, 11:08

Because troops can't go out and melee every single little skirmisher. If they do you've effectively temporarily taken out of action 60(or whatever) soldiers with one person. Same goes for if they decide to fire a volley at them.

**Incongruous** · 09-02-2007, 11:35

?
A single skirmisher is not a worry, but a battalion is. Going after them with you're own skirmishers is the way battles were fought. So it might take them a while to decide the fight, thats what its all about.

**Fisherking** · 09-02-2007, 11:46

Oh! yes what about firing in the prone position and units remaining concealed longer in the fight!

Front ranks kneel and two ranks fire! Staggered loading...complex routines or not?

**ninjahboy** · 09-02-2007, 13:18

there are forced firing controls for those micromanagers. Not sure if there is a specific button but i know that the human player can execute the FIRE!! order whenever he likes providing they're reloaded

**geala** · 09-02-2007, 13:20

I'm not sure how you want light troops to fight like? Normally they moved in open order, but more or less as a unit and fired individually at the enemy. This can be achieved with a skirmishing function similar to the actual. And the importance of light troops should not be exaggerated. They had their merits but were not decisive in the most situations.

**Marshal Murat** · 09-02-2007, 14:26

Originally Posted by Bopa

If you should hide a battalion of Skirmishers within a tree line and have them fire at opposing troops of the line, they would be a very hard thing to overcome without the use of similar troops.

Theoretically, the best way to counter a skirmisher ambush is to immediately launch an attack. If you don't you end up like Braddock. Dead.

Skirmishers are probably the only thing that CA has gotten correct with RTW and M2TW. They can be stealthy, harass from short range (peltasts) or long range (archers) hide in the trees.

Personally, they've got it correct so far.