Faction Thread 7: Orcs and Goblins

[Alletun]

About the helmets:

, still helmets, weapons and shields to go.

About the proportions:
The model is based off of a warhammer online orthograph, so the proportions stays.

[Lordy]

Allentun's work is top quality, your a legend mate!

Trolls look perfect, Black Orcs look amazing too.

[Maloka]

HI, new poster.

Just wanted to congratulate you, thats some awsome work and i have question..

How are you going to implement the Greenskins animosity tests to the game?

[Severe]

Don't know if it is possible, but if there is some way to give them poor morale, but so that they start 'Fighting to the death' rather than just fleeing, it would be a decent wa of doing it. You don't get cowardly Orcs, but you don't get to control them either. Of course, they're still not fighting each other, but I think this would come close.

[Taranaich]

There is a "set morale" option in the EDU which might be useful in this regard: I'm not entirely sure of its effects, but I think it means units stay at their "base" morale, and never rout. Maybe that would work?

[Severe]

Wouldn't that just give the Boyz uber morale? I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of TW, as you can probably tell, but to me that sounds like they will just never break, ie. stay controllable until they're dead. You should lose control of them, meaning that they should break, but they shouldn't run.

Not sure if this is the same as what you said, mechanics-newb here.

[Dead Guy]

I'm not sure, but soldiers in "fighting to the death" mode seem to be the suckiest sucks that ever sucked. They rarely get any significant number of kills even if you completely surround them and really let them fight to the last man in my experience. It's a good idea you have though, in principle.

[Steel*Faith]

If animosity is implemented (which would be great), make sure Black Orcs reduce the chance of infighting taking place. If it does happen, Black orcs should have the ability to kill a few greenskins to stop the fighting.

[Jonlissla]

If animosity is implemented (which would be great), make sure Black Orcs reduce the chance of infighting taking place. If it does happen, Black orcs should have the ability to kill a few greenskins to stop the fighting.

I don't think that's possible, engine-wise.
Besides, Orks loves fighting, but only if they're winning. If they're losing, they will problably run away too, like any sensible creature would (yeah, yeah, I know, Orks aren't excactly sensible ).

[Raz]

Alletun, I thought the black orcs had more armour and less shoulder pads. Especially on the legs. I'd always seen them like more like this (note the one on the right mainly) but of course, if you can't be bothered or you just don't want to, I wouldn't mind seeing them like what you've created.

[fireblade]

I don't think that's possible, engine-wise.
Besides, Orks loves fighting, but only if they're winning. If they're losing, they will problably run away too, like any sensible creature would (yeah, yeah, I know, Orks aren't excactly sensible ).

According to the sixth edition army book, orcs don't mind dying if they die during a good fight. But what is a good fight? Orks will probably flee if they think they don't stand a chance, and will stay if they will win.

I think the engine isn't capable of implementing animosity. It is a temporary state of running amok, which i believe can't be done.

Fireblade

[DrZoidberg]

According to the sixth edition army book, orcs don't mind dying if they die during a good fight. But what is a good fight? Orks will probably flee if they think they don't stand a chance, and will stay if they will win.

I think the engine isn't capable of implementing animosity. It is a temporary state of running amok, which i believe can't be done.

Fireblade

I don't think it's that. I think it's more down to enthusiasm about fighting and lack of brains. They don't mind charging outnumbered into intact lines of heavily armed troops, if they're sure they'll win. Which being stupid, is most often what they'll believe. And since it's the stronger guys and not necessarily the smarter guys, who are commanding... it's easy to see how this is a problem.

But if dying is obvious, of course they'll break and run. Goblins will run even when numbers are equal. They're not taking any risks.

It's described pretty poetically in the Orc sourcebook. I can dig up some quotes.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Funny Idea, how about make them a horde army. They always called it and would be very much they're way. Giants and trolls are captured so could be merc units.
Alternatively make them in to small tribe factions and have crusade/jihad when they are led by warlord or could script a hero with many stacks to turn up?
Thinking something like apache tribes. Trade is unknown to them they pillage to get everything.

[Caradrayan]

suggestions: others have talked about animosity. The best way I can think to implement this is to just give every greenskin unit except black orcs the "may charge without orders" trait. I suspect anything more complicated might be difficult.

Regarding income, their tech tree should definitely not include markets or anything. They should derive most of their income from looting, with traits and such that enhance that. I would suggest high growth rates, but also high squalor and unrest. I'm not sure if there is any way to affect their squalor and unrest specifically, so that it doesn't affect other races that gain control of greenskin territory, but they should at least have very few buildings and such that counter it. Maybe their happiness should be wrapped up their traits, which would encourage the orc player to garrison their cities with rulers. Instead of management and income, their rulers would have things like "I's da BOSS!" which would add law and happiness. Maybe something like "Get to Work!" which would add farming.

To balance the low income and happiness, they should have the option to WAAAAAGH! which would just be a crusade mechanic. Finally, they should go into horde mode, and they are probably the only faction that should do this, unless you bring in ogre kingdoms.

[ratbarf]

Well, if orc happiness is based around fighting, wouldn't unrest actually be good for them? That way there is lotsa foighten an lotsa 'eads ta bash!

But for their unrest, the buildings should be like a fighting pit or mud wrestling or somekind of combative deadly sport that would release their homocidal tendancies.

[Flying Pig]

You could make all of the orc units berserker (if it exists in M2TW) to represent their unwillingness to stop killing stuff and their amazing talent for it - after all they are some of the great conquerers in Warhammer. To compensate they need orcy archers (can't hit a barn from the iside) and almost no armour

[Gnashfang]

You could make all of the orc units berserker (if it exists in M2TW) to represent their unwillingness to stop killing stuff and their amazing talent for it - after all they are some of the great conquerers in Warhammer. To compensate they need orcy archers (can't hit a barn from the iside) and almost no armour

If that happened, it'd hardly be an RTS for the orcs. It'd end up being a colossal pain and make them unplayable for the most part. Maybe one or two berskerker units, but definitely not all of them.

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Make their lower tier units berserk? And then the rest of em give em increasingly higher morale, but still being low.

Idk... just throwing ideas out there >.>

[Gnashfang]

Perhaps, but I feel that'd still be pushing it. Maybe have one berserker unit, then other Orcs perhaps, if at all possible, with a sloppy response. So that they won't really pull out of combat very fast when ordered? (I'm not sure and somewhat doubt this is possible, but maybe?)

[Caradrayan]

I think the "may charge without orders" trait will do that. In Vanilla, troops with that trait seem less likely to obey an order to leave a combat.

[Gnashfang]

Then that'd work quite well!

[Slanted]

Hi new to the boards and have looked through most of the screenies and faction threads and i must say this is one of the best mods I have ever seen (espescially since its warhammer ). Anyways, i was just wonderin if night goblins were gonna be in it. No real difference except for lower morale and more of them. Doesnt have to be but i like them because of the cloaks and Skarsnik, the most badass goblin eva.

[Alletun]

welcome to the boards!

yes there will be night goblin archers and spearmen

[Raz]

That's good to know. Night gobs were one of the first units I painted... and welcome to the .org Slanted.

[Slanted]

Awesome, entire armies of gobos here I come. Thanks for the welcome too.

[Goncalou]

orcs are not evil they are just stupid and violent. Infact the only people who are in warhammer that could be classed as evill are the dark elves

the eyes could be a bit bigger thought dont stand out much when i look at it again.

ey dont dis the DE they're awesome, and yeah i know youre not dissing them but when you think evil in warhammer you think CHAOS!!!! so dont say thoise mad sadistic Dark Elves are evil unless you also include those chaos worshipping mutated Hordes and Beasts of Chaos.

[Kuningaz]

Yeah actually there's plenty of really evil factions except for DE: Chaos, Hordes of Chaos, Skaven, Vampires,...

[Panda]

was just wondering if i could possibly have some screenies of the orcs posted here if there are any?

i don't fancy sifting through 150 odd posts looking for them

but don't worry tis fine if no one fancies it

i'm off now anyway for today goodbye

[Eufarius]

Theres a video of the screenshots in Youtube.

[Slanted]

I have a few ideas. Since the orcs and gobos rarely stay in one place or build cities on the places they do stay at for a while maybe you could add the apachean tribes only village places but make their population really large. And when they start off all unupgraded and what not there will be alot of unrest but as you build stuff (such as fightin pit, where da boyz can fight wifout bein in da streets) the unrest decreases. And with the orcs constant fighting unless there is a boss nearby the generals could give large bonuses to law. And maybe give the orc generals a great loot bonus as there isnt much in the way of income for the orcs, and their ability to steal everything that isnt nailed down. Just a few ideas i was thinkin about. And just a quick question will their be gobbo genreals sorry with all of the questions. Ignorance is not bliss.