Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: The Map, Tilted?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Member Member brymht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, US.
    Posts
    292

    Default The Map, Tilted?

    One of the things I loved about RTR 7.0 (Biggest let down EVER) was the idea to tilt the map, to include less of the Sahara, less of Sideria, and the plains, and a greater concetration on the "civilized" world. It was a shame this map was never used. Any effort to utilize similar map changes on EB2, or significant map changes at all?

  2. #2
    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex, England (GMT)
    Posts
    10,736

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Personally I found the tilted map to be quite disconcerting, and it is not something we have considered. The EBII Map will largely be copied directly from the EBI map with minor changes to province borders and names.

    Foot
    EBII Mod Leader
    Hayasdan Faction Co-ordinator


  3. #3

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    While I thought that the idea in intself is quite neat; the way it works out in a game as EB.... I am not to convinced. For one thing some of our factions would experience some pretty inconvenient geography as a result of projecting a sphere onto a rectangle like that.

    For RTR this isn't that big an issue, AFAIK, as they focus more on what you call the 'civilised' world; but EB has a fair few factions more on the 'outer-spheres' of the map. Not too practical from what I saw on the screenshots to go for a 'tilted' map then...
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 04-23-2008 at 18:06.
    - Tellos Athenaios
    CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread


    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

  4. #4
    Member Member brymht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, US.
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    I suppose it would be problematic for the Saba if noone else.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Sauromatae and Saka possibly as well. And possibly... uhm, well you'll hear about that soon enough...
    - Tellos Athenaios
    CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread


    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

  6. #6
    AtB n00b Member chairman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    With my head in the clouds and my feet on the ground
    Posts
    205

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    AAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!! They KNOW something we don't know!!!

    Chairman
    My balloons -

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
    Sauromatae and Saka possibly as well. And possibly... uhm, well you'll hear about that soon enough...
    HA HA! You got me thinkin all week about this one, Mâh-Sakâ, Apâ Sakâ, Qataban, Gandhara, Erain, Sklaven- WHO COULD THEY BE?? , another clue, end the sleepless nights!!
    ....please

  8. #8
    Jesus Member lobf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nazareth
    Posts
    531

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
    While I thought that the idea in intself is quite neat; the way it works out in a game as EB.... I am not to convinced. For one thing some of our factions would experience some pretty inconvenient geography as a result of projecting a sphere onto a rectangle like that.

    For RTR this isn't that big an issue, AFAIK, as they focus more on what you call the 'civilised' world; but EB has a fair few factions more on the 'outer-spheres' of the map. Not too practical from what I saw on the screenshots to go for a 'tilted' map then...
    I don't understand what this means. Specifically how the AI knows/cares the map is tilted.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Okay, take a breath. Here goes:

    As you'll know the earth isn't a neat rectangle; so whenever you try to do cartography with it on any 'worldwide' scale you will have some obvious problems. One: no matter what you do you will always end up with an incorrect map due to the distortion you get from projecting some sphere onto a rectangle. Two: either your proportions will be all wrong or your angles will; again due to the fact that you project your sphere of sorts onto a rectangle.

    What RTR has done is that they have chosen to go with correct angles; which means that if you would view their 'Earth' from 'space' you would see the same rough shape as you would with the real Earth; i.e. their map can be seen as a flattened sphere. However towards the boundaries of their map you will notice that in order to keep the angles the size of the various land-masses/provinces had to be stretched/shrunk; a natural consequence of their 'circular' map. Imagine a circle intersected by two lines who intersect each other in the center at some angle as well. Now imagine a circle with the same center but half the radius. Again the lines will intersect the second circle but the distance between the first two intersection points and the latter two will reveal a signficant difference.

    Hence factions which dwell on the rims of the RTR map will have much more of a distance to cover from one city to another on the map than they would have to in real life. Since RTR has more of a focus on the Mediterrean this isn't too much of a problem for them as they simply can chose the center of 'their circle' to be somewhere in the middle of that sea; and the need to shrink provinces won't become as obvious due to the rather large amount of provinces already located there -- and the need to stretch provinces can be considered a small price to pay as relatively few factions will ever need to traverse those stretched provinces. In fact part of those provinces are the steppes for which it doesn't really matter too much as one can always claim to incorporate part of one region into another.


    EB on the other hand has chosen to stick to the more common approach of rendering the proportions correct but the angles wrong. So you could view the EB map as an 'unfolded' Earth. This means that distances on the map correspond to distances in the real world; but that moving directions will not. A simple example is that 'north' doesn't correspond to 'up'; but differs from which point on the map you look at it.
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 05-10-2008 at 18:42.
    - Tellos Athenaios
    CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread


    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

  10. #10
    Jesus Member lobf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nazareth
    Posts
    531

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Thank you very much, that was exactly the explanation I was looking for.

    Plus, it would look a little lame to xerox an idea like that, amirite? :P

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Quote Originally Posted by brymht
    One of the things I loved about RTR 7.0 (Biggest let down EVER) was the idea to tilt the map, to include less of the Sahara, less of Sideria, and the plains, and a greater concetration on the "civilized" world. It was a shame this map was never used. Any effort to utilize similar map changes on EB2, or significant map changes at all?

    um...we haven't released RTR VII yet
    Those who would give up essential liberties for a perceived sense of security deserve neither liberty nor security--Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    5,352

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    I think that's the letdown he's referring to.

    I'm really looking forward to it though ;)
    This space intentionally left blank.

  13. #13
    Member Member brymht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, US.
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    No Offense to any RTR VII People here meant. When I gave up waiting for RTR VII I, after all, came into the arms of EB .8

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Quote Originally Posted by brymht
    No Offense to any RTR VII People here meant. When I gave up waiting for RTR VII I, after all, came into the arms of EB .8
    yeah, i've been addicted to EB since 0.8. try beta testing EB 1.0/1.1 and working on RTR/RTR-TIC at the same time...talk about frying your brain
    Those who would give up essential liberties for a perceived sense of security deserve neither liberty nor security--Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
    Member Member Cartaphilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Baliar Maior
    Posts
    268

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    One question:

    Do you consider allow a pass (as in the Bosphorus or in Sicilia) in the Channel and in Gibraltar?
    That would be interesting. So it will end the boring isolation of the Casse and will allow more movement between Hispania and Africa - you know pretty well that the IA hates the sea campaigns and the transport of the troops.
    "Iustitia procurat pacem et iniuria bellum, humilia verba sunt nuntii pacis et superba, belli." (Ramon Llull)

  16. #16
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    5,352

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Doesn't hate them as a bad in M2TW.
    This space intentionally left blank.

  17. #17
    EB TRIBVNVS PLEBIS Member MarcusAureliusAntoninus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The State of Jefferson, USA
    Posts
    5,722

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    No landbridge across the English Channel in EB1 was decided because it is a decent amount of distant and a rough sea. Where as you could commandeer a merchant fleet at other landbridges, you would need an actual fleet and a lot of planning to cross the Channel.

    Thankfully, the M2TW AI is not afraid of making naval invasions.


  18. #18
    Member Member Cartaphilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Baliar Maior
    Posts
    268

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus
    No landbridge across the English Channel in EB1 was decided because it is a decent amount of distant and a rough sea. Where as you could commandeer a merchant fleet at other landbridges, you would need an actual fleet and a lot of planning to cross the Channel.

    Thankfully, the M2TW AI is not afraid of making naval invasions.

    I have played M2tw in many campaigns, and the AI seldom make naval invasions, more than RTW but few indeed.

    And what about the landbridge in Gibraltar? This pass wasn't a problem for any army in History.

    The English channel with a landbridge could do a better campaign. Playing the Casse is now too easy. You have now no trouble to unify the Islands and then make your landing in the Continent.
    "Iustitia procurat pacem et iniuria bellum, humilia verba sunt nuntii pacis et superba, belli." (Ramon Llull)

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Map, Tilted?

    I guess that the AI will not allow you to do this quite as undisturbed in EB2.
    The M2TW campaign-AI does, actually, use naval landings from time to time.
    Sure, an island will be somewhat more protected from invasion than a "regular" province, but that does, in my opinion, only add realism to the game. After all, launching a naval invasion is not the kind of thing you can do whenever you feel like it. It takes careful planning and preparation.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO