Peasants

[Xiahou]

Something Ive noticed in single player.... It seems like my enemies use an inordinate amount of peasants in their armies (often 60% or higher) which gives their armies huge numbers but they just... well... suck. I had a force of 240 soldiers crush an army of over 1000 because 600 of them were peasants. There were also many archers, some calvary and just a scant number of troops that can actually melee worth a darn.

So, what Im wondering is- is this an AI problem or is it just intentional that certain factions use hordes of rabble in battles? Admittedly, Ive mainly fought muslim factions- so Im not sure if the Western factions do the same.

It can be very tedious to hunt down all of those units when they break and flee immediately in all directions and then manage to regroup before routing off the map.

Has anyone else noticed this? Still, Great game

[Papewaio]

Don't have the game yet. But I would like to know if this is based on the type of general attacking you and the difficulty level of the game.

BTW aren't the units different sizes... like 200 men apiece for peasants and down to 12 for Naptha throwers? So maybe the proportions based on units looks better then the raw man power.

[andrewt]

Peasants use 100. Yes, I'm actually scared of attacking many provinces until I scout them and see tons and tons of peasants.

[Xiahou]

Yeah, and its not just the Muslims either. Im guessing peasants look attractive to the AI because they're cheap infantry that you can buy in large numbers.

The downside is that I can consitently fight and win battles where Im outnumbered 5-1... which just doesnt seem realistic. Meanwhile these factions keep getting largest army awards even thought they're more than half peasants.

[Vanya]

Not entirely true...

Vanya, in His infinite wisdom, tried his first crack at MTW as the Spanish.

Vanya was sitting pretty in northern spain, and decided to attack Portugal because He was running out of money and needed some extra income. (Of course, after Vanya took Portugal, He noticed its base income was paltry... ) Well, Portugal had just been taken by the friggin' mohads. Vanya's Spanish Jinetes rocked and totally spanked the opposition.

5 rebellions later... Vanya, with no money and unable to reinforce His army of occupation decided to withdraw. The timing was opportune too, as the rebellion was a catholic one and not a 'mohad one like the previous 4. (The attrition was starting to add up, ya see...)

So, Vanya is sitting pretty in Madrid, with an army He thinks is 'capable'... ROFLMAO. Vanya somehow thought that those 'urban militia' units were worth a rat's arse because they had held the line in Portugal OK. And, the army was led by the King himself (not Elvis :eek .

So, what happens? The 'mohads invite themselves to the party in Madrid. In walks 1,000 men... with lots of Ghulam cavalry and armored sargeants. You got it -- pros facing off against my 'militia'! Sure I had some Jinetes still...

So, Vanya plants himself on the crest of the tallest peak. Vanya thinks its a good position. Vanya thinks His King is a 'good' general. Vanya peppers the enemy as the climb uphill. Vanya sends His Jinetes to flank the enemy. And the enemy changes course to AVOID Vanya's Jinetes! GAH! Now, Vanya must sweep across behind His lines to prevent from being flanked Himself! The enemy gets close and charges home. Vanya orders His lines to countercharge. Vanya's troops are racing DOWNHILL at the pigs! Vanya's spearmen pig-stick the enemy general Ghulam pigs!

GAH!

Vanya's men inexplicably turn and run like whipped dogs right after contact! GAH! The SHAME! Just as His Jinetes and Kinigits were about to smack the enemy rear! So, all the infantry high-tail it out of dodge! And all that is left are 3 Jinetes units and the King (not Elvis...).

So, the King feels like doing the Jailhouse rock, because what does he do? Gets tangled up with an enemy spear unit and refuses to get out of the mess. Vanya's Jinetes easily crush several of the enemy units that are separated from the rest. Vanya takes over 400 prisioners in doing so. It looks as if the Horseman might pull it off!

The King is still in trouble, so Vanya decides to put the fear of Buddha into the enemy and executes all the prisioners being held! The spearmen harrassing The King rout! WOOHOO! But, the Ghulams come up behind the King and engage him! But, the Jinetes take MORE prisioners! And Vanya again EXECUTES them! The King routs! GAH! Double-GAH! With ONE man left -- the King himself! GAH!

Now, Vanya's 3 Jinetes are facing 3 'mohad units. The Ghulams, with only 4 men left, and two sargeants units. They destroy the first sargent as it descended from a hill! Looking good! The Ghulams are approaching. Vanya thinks, if He can take them out, the battle will be won! He surrounds the Ghulams and peppers them with javelins while the sargeant unit is still far away. Then, He orders a full charge and all 3 Jinetes surround the pigs and hack at them.

The Jinetes killed TWO Ghulams! Again -- the killed TWO Ghulams! GAH! And then routed! 3 friggin' Ghulam pigs chased 3 full Jinete units off the field!

And they had the GAUL to ask for almost 5 grand in ransom for that idiot King afterwards!

Vanya was sorely disappointed with the performance of His infantry. He mistook them for pros. GAH! Now, Vanya only had Leon and Navarre left! Navarre with a single unit of kinigits (oooohhh!) and Leon with 5 Jinetes, 2 peasants, 1 spearman, 1 militia and the new King (old one was executed when the ransom was not paid... When Vanya got the call, He told them "Keep him! Good luck raising him! And don't forget to give him his medication...")

And the 'mohads had a fresh 1,000 coming from Cordoba!

GAH!

Vanya found Himself too distracted on trying to find out how to marry off those bitches, er daughters. He had one of them make it all the way to Poland before becomming a spinster! GAH! ROFLMAO!

Vanya also tried to do the trade thing. But, having a ship in another port did nothing! Vanya would realize AFTER the game -- ya know, when He actually OPENNED the manual -- that He needed ships in every sea province between His port and the other to get trade mullah...

GAH!

And so, Spain was lost... Vanya feels like a newbie again! Wait, Vanya *IS* a newbie!

GAH!

[Kraellin]

hehehe...welcome to spain, old friend :) aint it fun :)
the spinster thing is hilarious.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[RageMonsta]

Strange but MP is often made up of 70% peasant...and believe it or not these creatures even try and talk to us...

out of my eyeline you ronin scum...oh and get a job.my rice needs farming.

[Kraellin]

i havent really encountered a massive peasant thing yet. i wonder if it's got to do with when rebellions occur and you get all those peasant uprisings...do they stay around afterwards and turn into an army for that country? i'll have to watch for this.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Xiahou]

Actually rebellions, for me at least, have better armies than the actual factions.

I had one rebel army that had 2 units of heavy calvary and 18- yes count them, 18 ballistas, among with other sordid units.

What really burned me was when a stray ballista shot killed my emperor... now how the heck did rebels get their hands on 18 ballistas???

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by Xiahou:
What really burned me was when a stray ballista shot killed my emperor... now how the heck did rebels get their hands on 18 ballistas??? [/QUOTE]

Will Tell you later

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Pape you're a disgrace. - NinjaKilla
Pape has the right idea. - Sir Kuma of The Org
Papewaio is right on the money. - Nelson

[This message has been edited by Papewaio (edited 08-23-2002).]

[Nobunaga0611]

Yeah I had the same problem in Spain, with Portugal, except there was a Christian uprising against the Almohads, and this was when I thought it ideal to invade the province. BUT, instead of the christians attacking the almohads, they attacked me! I didn't even see it coming, i was trying to engage the Almohads. I found myself in between two armies, and didn't pay the ransom either . Every rebellion for me gets progressively larger, like the rebels get better units the more time they rebel. It seems like they don't rebel at least for a few years afterwards if I let all the captured rebels go (not the captured soldiers, I almost always kill them in a rebellion).

[Del]

Another great story by Vanya..

Good previews from all. I may not buy tho.. first, I need a better comp, and I'm gonna be out of the country for a semester starting January..

Del

[andrewt]

I actually build a lot of peasants. You get 2 of them for every gold you spend, they have small upkeep costs and they are invaluable for holding provinces. All my provinces that are not in the front lines are full of peasants to shore up loyalty. I also use them to shore up loyalty of newly conquered provinces. I have peasants almost everywhere.

[RageMonsta]

i blame the Euro dollar.

[DarknScaly]

Quote Originally posted by andrewt:
I actually build a lot of peasants. You get 2 of them for every gold you spend, they have small upkeep costs and they are invaluable for holding provinces. All my provinces that are not in the front lines are full of peasants to shore up loyalty. I also use them to shore up loyalty of newly conquered provinces. I have peasants almost everywhere.[/QUOTE]

I prefer to use "native troops" - such as Highlanders, Gallowglass, Vikings.

You get 60 for a 22 upkeep, peasants are 100 for 37 upkeep.

120 (2 units) of highlanders at a cost of 44 florins is FAR more of a force than 100 peasants at 37 florins. add in a unit of pavise arbalsters (60 for 22 upkeep again) and you've got a good little mini-army.

Got a rebelllion taking place?

Take the 3 units from each province nearby - drop em all in to fight the rebellion. 3 arbalasters and 6 gallows/highlanders can take on a lot of stuff.


In the abscence of these units the next best-value-for-money "stay at home unit" are Militia Sergeants imo. These guys can defend very well but also attack pretty well - especiallya gsint armoured troops that are likely to be spawned in later rebellions. Peasants ahve absolutely no hope in these circs.

Alternatively you just make sure every province ahs a bloody huge fortress with gun towers and you can sit 100 peasants in there for ever and not lose... gives you plenty of time to form an army up and come to the rescue.

- -

Toward end game remember that its upkeep costs that rule you, by this time you should have built most every thing you need and the number of armies required should be dropping - disand expensive units that arent fighting and replace them with "defensive" or "reactionary" armies in key strategic places.

Get your upkeep costs down and farmland and mining income will even keep you in profit.

[Xiahou]

Well its still annoying when u get invaded by 1000+ troops only to find out that 700 of them are peasants...

Maybe there is a way to give them a lesser value for the AI so it wont use so darn many? Sure, they're good as cannon fodder... but they dont hold up well against a kataphraktoi charge.