Indo-European studies

**Anastasios Helios** · 09-01-2007, 02:48

I was reading the histories of the Armenians and encountered this line:

These assimilated foreign families were predominantly of Indo-European (Aryan) origin, such as Iranians, Alanians, Greeks and Romans.

Is Aryan really a synonym with Indo-European? Here that word is rather taboo and is only correctly used when referring to Indo-Iranians. For example the Tokharians called themselves Arya and the word means noble in Sanskrit or whatever. There is no reference to Germans, Romans, Kelts, or Greeks ever calling themselves that so...using it in the sense of Indo-Europeans as a whole sounds a little like Hitler-talk.

Also...one of the few connections Greeks and Romans have to the original Indo-Europeans is linguistic and that can only tell us so much. Scholars oftentimes forget the importance of the non-Indo-European Etruscans, Tyrrhenoi, and Minoans to the development of Greco-Roman civilization. It can be argued that influence from these civilizations far outweighs any contributions from Indo-European invaders that obliberated the cultures of the unwarlike natives

**blitzkrieg80** · 09-01-2007, 03:40

Actually, that statement is a red flag, because Aryan/Indo-Iranian constitutes a single language family of Indo-European culture, among which Greeks and Romans do not belong. Indo-Iranian culture is much underrecognized in influence, as with all steppe culture.

"We must also take a brief glance at that most loaded of Indo-European words- Aryan. As an ethnic designation, the word is most properly limited to the Indo-Iranians, and mostly justly to the latter where it still gives its name to the country Iran (from the Avestan genitive plural aryanam through later Iranian eran to iran). The great Persian king Darius described himself as Aryan. The term was also used widely in India where it referred to one who was a a member of the community"(Mallory 126). In Search of the Indo-Europeans

There is no relationship between race theory and Aryan just because Hitler and other mentally deficient individuals ruined the word with propoganda and pseudo-science, much like the swastika. India still uses the swastika, because it represents a sun and they don't have to worry about BS concerning PC or sensibility. Really, the swastika is a cool symbol... the arms of the sun are much like spokes on a wagon wheel, important Indo-European concepts.

Semi-similary, Germans were Arian in religion and it has nothing to do with Aryan, despite its apparent similarity.

**Anastasios Helios** · 09-01-2007, 03:55

These assimilated foreign families were predominantly of Indo-European (Aryan) origin, such as Iranians, Alanians, Greeks and Romans.

This statement is from the Europa Barbarorum history of Armenia...it rather shocked me. It kinda makes my great respect for the game drop just slightly.

**blitzkrieg80** · 09-01-2007, 04:33

Hmm... I thought you meant Armenian history, like on some website somewhere...

I'm sure its a typo, I woudn't worry too much... one can easily see them condensing two phrases and forgetting/missing something. It IS something definitely that should be corrected, though. I say this because I have not ever seen a single EB member use the word Aryan except in the context of India, but it is possible someone with specific views wrote that who does not represent EB, but regardless, a good thing to catch- thank you.

*hmm, just looked it up in my Merriam Webster dictionary and Aryan is commonly used to refer to Indo-European, so I don't think the term was used for any reason other than simplification, but that doesn't mean it should not be changed... it still needs to go.

Also, I guess I missed that other comment, but I completely agree that pre-Indo-European peoples have been VERY important in the development of different cultures, to the point that some interesting theories take place, such as pre-Greeks or pre-Germans, who constitute quite a bit to what we think of as those cultures... luckily, we KNOW the Etruscans were influential, but it is a shame we have very little evidence of their language... the Basque get a good reputation as being non-Indo-Euro, but deserve it.

**artavazd** · 09-01-2007, 07:27

the swastica is found in armenia dating 5000 years. I dont care what hitler said and what is connected with ww2 but the swastica and the term aryan is connected with armenia.