Americas Campaign: Apache

[doombringer]

small note on the french:
because they are in horde mode, i found it possible to assasinate them into submission because of the low numbers and local concentration of family members

[Cadwallon]

Battles are bloody affairs - particularly when you face the Mesoamericans. Hugh armies, high attack values combined with low armour values make for high casualties. I found the Chichimecs, with their huge stacks of heavy infantry very hard initially. You usually hadn't done enough damage with your missile troops before they get to your line.

Until you get Kotisenkos (sp?) and Onde's men, the priests are probably your best bet. Don't rely on your general's body guard - they are lightly armoured and vulnerable - only commit them in rear charges - not attrition as they will lose against mesoamericans or Europeans who are tougher with higher attack values. Lost track of the number of general's I've lost.

Money is not an issue. As one of the other posters said - your armies have a low maintenance cost - so go large! Elite armies are hard to build, so just build lots. I made one of the Mesoamericans my vassals (after taking two of their cities, then threatening them and offering them 15000). Next turn I'm in a war with the Aztecs and I have 500 000 florins in the kitty!

Until you get Onde's Men you really don't have a line of battle infantryman that can go toe to toe with jaguar, eagle or other heavy infantry. Even with Onde's men, I'm finding it hard fighting the hordes of Aztecs that I'm now facing. I'm losing more than I'm winning - if it weren't for the continual streams of reinforcements coming from the north I'd be cactus and my frontier of former Chichimec territory would have long been swallowed up.

Try using your mounted thunder braves to snipe and harry flanks. Thunder braves are great at shooting, but crap in combat - they won't last. Target your opponent's general, as you can guarantee he'll be doing the same (I've watched as I moved my general down the line - the opposing Aztecs followed him from the left to the right flank!). One tactic which is long but worthwhile is having only mounted troops - stay ahead of him, snipe his flanks and rear and don't let him get into combat until a large proportion of his army is gone or broken.

Remember that thunder braves have long range and cause fear against your native opponents. The Europeans seem to have been limited and/or stamped out by their more numerous native american opponents. The aztecs, apachean and mayans are rampant. Now if I can only get the Mayans to declare war against the Aztecs...

[icek]

it work in 1.4 on m/m and dont know if it a bug or feature but it seems that rebels in settlements dont have fire at will turned on and there are no more arrows chasing at you, so basically to capture settlements you need large portion of archers doing one volley, escape and replay. It takes long than usual full attack but this way you can lose less than 10 men fighting againts settlements with 6 archer units(dogs).

[Droce]

Maybe is was just me, but playing h/vh was incredibly simple for one reason: Braves are insane morale killers. I get one general, 6 dog soldiers (or the K guys when I got them) 12 braves, and some medicine men for the chant and destroyed. As the enemy comes towards your lines (and every AI faction did that for me, even when I attacked) your dog soldiers will cause horrible damage, then when they get within range of the braves, a few spears sends them running. Even if they didn't run, the braves are powerful enough to survive in melee (and easily destroy the faction beneath you). The french died en masse because they simply charged, and the Spanish don't have enough numbers to cause you a problem.

Another thing I did was ally Aztecs, they would never backstab because everyone was against them, so you could often stick an army beside theres and have them kill the enemy for you.

Another thing, warpath is vastly overrated (and my elder died right at the start, so I could only use one), because every town you conquer can build your staple troops in a few turns. Not to mention that every city can support it's own full stack.

My two cents. Hello everyone, also.

[Benandorf]

I have a question for my fellow chiefs: Is there any reason not to keep medicine men in chant? Are there any negative effects at all? From what I've seen, it gives a big morale boost, lowers enemy morale, and takes nothing away. Does it stop when fighting?

[Guyus Germanicus]

I have a question for my fellow chiefs: Is there any reason not to keep medicine men in chant? Are there any negative effects at all? From what I've seen, it gives a big morale boost, lowers enemy morale, and takes nothing away. Does it stop when fighting?

Can't answer that question. But thought of something else. I've been fighting with apaches recruiting at least four medicine man units per stack. I haven't tried this - but I was wondering - could you not get the best of both functions by having one medicine man unit chant while using the other three to swarm to the enemy?

I have found braves to be less reliable for frontal attacks simply because they tend to want to perform their function of spearthrowing first. I've found that my enemy usually tries to close with me quickly minimizing the amount of time they remain under my arrow showers. Unlike in RTW when the enemy would simply stand forever still while your archers could decimate them from afar. So, to compensate, I have recruited four scouts to compliment my medicine men. I recruit four units of braves as well. But it's the scouts and the medicine men that form my front line shield. And what I typically will do is swarm one enemy unit with 6-7 infantry. Get the rout started. Then hit another enemy unit. Concentration of force tactics.

If I do periodic warpaths, the experience bonuses I acquire after a couple successes can give my scouts 2-3 silver chevrons which kicks their experience and skill levels up making them more formidable over time. So I'm getting a 11-12 attack factor power on scouts. In my current game I have a medicine man unit with three gold chevrons.

So, to summarize, pre-Onde, I have 8 straight up infantry per stack (4 scouts & 4 medicine men), five dog soldier (pre-Koitsenko) or five Koitsenkos, and one chief. I always try to attack the French with at least two stacks at once - safety in numbers. It's amazing what swarms of Injuns can accomplish. A side benefit of recruiting so many scouts and medicine men has been that I reach the infantry recruiting threshold for Onde men quickly. Then all I need to do is win 50 battles, which usually takes a little longer.

Once the gunpowder and horses are acquired I vary the stacks somewhat. I go with six mounted thunderbraves, keep the scouts and medicine man numbers the same, use at least 4-5 Koitsenko's and a chief, where possible. I'll vary it a bit with mounted archers. The mounted thunderbraves can really do a number on the armoured french units - both cavalry and heavy infantry. I think the thunder braves are the key to hitting the Tarascans and Txatclans (sp) with their eagle warriors, janguar troops and temple guard, etc.

Will share more as I make discovery as to what works best.

Bottomline, I always try to use two stacks in every attack. I've been toying with the idea of having one stack made up almost entirely of mounted thunderbraves and archers - simply harrass the be-hayzoos out of the Central American tribe until they close with my other stack which has real infantry. Ondes, medicine men, koitsenkos, and a few thunderbraves.

It should work. What are your variations, guys? Any favorite tactics.

[Cadwallon]

I concur - I tend to have a mobile stack of mounted thunderbraves sheparding a more HTH stack of Kotsienkos/Medicine Men/Ondes' Men/thunder braves with high star general. I still find it hard in big battles with mesoamericans - the sheer numbers makes them bloody affairs. Also - the Aztecs at the stage of game I'm in (VH/VH about turn 70 odd) have LOTS of stacks. I've counted around 20 full stacks of jaguars/eagle warriors coming my way.