new turkish units

[The Outsider]

hi guys i am currently stuck in cyprus and i cant get my hands on kingdoms but i am dying to learn what r the new turkish units and r they playeble in grand campaign as well? also can anyone tell me the new stats of the janissary heavy infantry? i would like to know whether they became worth using or not

[Moah]

hi guys i am currently stuck in cyprus and i cant get my hands on kingdoms but i am dying to learn what r the new turkish units and r they playeble in grand campaign as well? also can anyone tell me the new stats of the janissary heavy infantry? i would like to know whether they became worth using or not

became? they were pretty good when I played them...

[The Outsider]

well i didnt use them after the two hand bug fix so i dont know their real performance also ca said that they were going to upgrade the stats so they should become more resistant to cavalary and do better in prolonged melees any experiences?

[Monsieur Alphonse]

According to the manual there are no Janissary units in Kingdoms. it is a shame

[The Outsider]

yes mate i know but what i am saying is that what r their new stats in the main campaign and is their new units for kingdoms r same with egypt or not?

[Zenicetus]

The Kingdoms expansion doesn't change any unit stats in the original M2TW campaign, or add any new units there.

[lars573]

According to the manual there are no Janissary units in Kingdoms. it is a shame

Lies and fabrications. They are very much there.


OT: The Turks get a Knightly equivalent cav/dismounted version. Hasham's (I think that's how you spell it). Turkish crossbows. Kurdish auxillaries. Haven't really palyed the Turks yet.

[Patricius]

According to the manual there are no Janissary units in Kingdoms. it is a shame

There are Janissaries.

[Guyus Germanicus]

There are Janissaries.

Gosh, it wouldn't make much sense to leave them out unless the Crusades Campaign in Kingdoms stays in a pre-Ottoman time setting. M2TW starts during the Seljuk period and spans thru the heyday of the Ottomans just before their first attempt at Vienna. I'm hoping to see some interesting units with the Islamic factions. I think Jack Lusted has talked a little bit about some of the new features in another thread since he's been doing a lot of the testing for CA.

Just as an aside, I remember when I first bought M2TW earlier this summer. I was having all kinds of problems making money. Didn't know how to manage the factions. I started a game with the Turks today, and I've just whizzed thru the earlier stages like I never thought I would a couple months ago. Took Antioch early, jihaded Baghdad into the fold. I love those Afghan javelin units. I'm still not at the stage of the game where I'm producing good spearmen yet, but that will come shortly.

I just wish the flow of the combat was better. I've never gotten used to the difference in the combat game between RTW and M2TW. RTW is more fun to me. Guess we'll see what Kingdoms does. I should be getting my copy this week.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Just started a Campaign as the Turks in Kingdoms and indeed the Janissary units are in the campaign (stupid manual). Since all the other units have been toned down or have different stats I am curious to see how good the JHIs will be. The Janissary Musketeers and Janissary Archers have also different stats.

[The Outsider]

Interesting thanks guys, i guess that the kurdish units will be javelin armed?

The Kingdoms expansion doesn't change any unit stats in the original M2TW campaign, or add any new units there.

As far as i know there will be major changes in the unit stats which will effect their performances alot. A quote from totalwarblog.com:

"As outlined in the recent blog by Jason, there has been some significant re-balancing of unit stats for Kingdoms, the expansion pack for Medieval II. I am Jack Lusted, now a Games Tester at The Creative Assembly UK, but when I helped Jason by contributing to the balancing of Kingdoms I was a modder from the Total War Community.

Although the last blog described the process involved in balancing Kingdoms, it did not say what has changed. In this blog I will aim to explain how the balance has altered from Medieval II, give examples of how specific units have changed, what most unit types should be used for, and how the balance varies between the four Kingdoms campaigns.

The re-balance is not a small one, there have been some big changes. Almost all, if not all of the units have had changes to their stats. Some minor, some major. This is to reflect the fact that the whole balance of the game has been re-examined.

The really big change is to cavalry. Cavalry unit sizes are now smaller, and their stats have been dropped. They are now 30 soldiers on normal unit sizes, which means on huge they are 60. But before you all cry 'nerf!', let me explain what this means in-game. The smaller unit sizes makes cavalry more maneuverable as the size of cavalry units in update 1.2 proved to be a little unwieldy at times. Now you can use them more fluidly. And despite having their stats dropped, an increase to the mass of the mounts they ride means that heavy cavalry still pack a devastating punch from the rear or flank. This means that heavy cavalry have moved away from frontal charging wrecking balls, towards how they were used in the original Medieval: Total War - fast moving flanking units who pack a devastating punch. Even with a frontal charge, they can still wreak major damage upon non-spear, pike, or halberd troops.

There have been several global stat changes. All armour values have been reduced by 2, and all shield values have been raised by 2. These changes are designed to increase the importance of shields in combat when charged, but make units more vulnerable from the rear. Most units without shields have also received a boost to their defense skill so they have not been weakened in melee. The exception being missile units but they now have greater accuracy and therefore more deadly projectiles, so it balances out.

An example of one of the units that has had major changes to its stats are the Zweihanders. In update 1.2 this unit had the following stats:

Attack: 14
Charge bonus: 6
Attack attributes: none
Armour: 7
Defense Skill: 4
Cost: 680

In Kingdoms their stats have been changed to:

Attack: 15
Charge bonus: 9
Attack attributes: armour piercing (only counts half target armour when attacking)
Armour: 5
Defense Skill: 8
Cost: 520 (390 in Americas where all unit costs are lower. More on that later)

Quite a big change as you can see. Now they are true shock troops who have a very powerful charge. With the changes in unit stats, there has been a redefining of how some unit types are used. I'm going to go through and try and cover every unit type and how they should be used in Kingdoms.

Heavy cavalry - no longer sweep all before them in frontal charges. Spearmen, pikes and halberds can all stop frontal charges from them, and heavy infantry are better at resisting them. However heavy cavalry still deliver a punch that can't be beat to the rear and flanks of other units, which combined with the fact they're cavalry, means they can get into positions which allow them to deal the hammer blow. Rear and flanking charges also come with morale penalties to the enemy so they're great at routing parts of the enemy line.

This has proved to be a more fun balance, and one that offers better for gameplay. Do not think that heavy cavalry are now underpowered, they are not. For instance in the Crusades campaign, knights are crucial to t he Kingdom of Jerusalem. No other unit can match the maneuverability, impact of charge or morale effect from a charge that heavy cavalry has. They're not nerfed, they just have a different use now.

Light cavalry - fast and maneuverable - they should be used for dealing with skirmishers, routers, horse archers and possibly rear charges into infantry if the infantry is engaged.

Horse archers - with the improved missile accuracy and smaller more manageable cavalry unit sizes, these guys are as deadly as they should be. Vulnerable to archers and faster light cavalry.

Elephants - no major changes here, still the wonderfully fun point and click weapons of destruction they've always been. Just like before flaming arrows, artillery, javelins etc. are the counters to them.

2 handed swordsmen - all 2 handed sword units have gained the armour piercing ability and similar changes to the Zweihanders. They are now perhaps the best shock infantry in the game, but are vulnerable to missles and cavalry, and will suffer heavy casualties in prolonged melee. If used in conjuction with sword and shield infantry to exploit the damage done by the 2 handers charge, they should be able to breach most battle lines.

2 handed axe / polearm units - these guys have been made tougher in melee, and have had slight tweaks to their attack stats. They can now survive better in melee and deal out lots of damage on the charge. Think of them as infantry versions of heavy cavalry. Vulnerable to missiles and cavalry charges.

Spearmen - their main use in Kingdoms should be as the most common anti-cavalry unit type, but with the boost to their attack, they can also take on other infantry a bit better. But as always suffer from the penalties they get from having the spear trait so will be outclassed by other infantry.

Pikemen - the specialist anti-cavalry unit. With much higher mass in Kingdoms no cavalry charge can beat them frontally, and they can also deal with infantry slightly better too. Very weak when flanked and not as good as spears against other types of infantry.

Halberds - they have received boost to their attack values and to mass, so they are better against both cavalry and infantry. Good assault troops, but slow moving and vulnerable to missiles.

Halberds without spearwall - from instance Janissary Heavy Infantry. Have had boost to their attack and defense stats and reductions to cost. Great shock troops but can also do better now in prolonged melee.

Sword and shield infantry - no big changes here, these are still the best prolonged melee infantry unit, and probably the best all round unit type. There is now more variation between units like dismounted Feudal Knights and Dismounted Chivalric Knights.

Missile infantry - have been weakened in terms of their melee abilities slightly, but this is compensated by their increased missile accuracy will become more important due to the higher number of casualties they can inflict with their missiles.

Whilst the overall balance for each of the Kingdoms campaigns is the same, there are differences between each campaign for game-play reasons.

In the Teutonic campaign, all cavalry units are stronger with higher secondary attacks. The Teutonic Order units are also stronger than equivalent unit of other nations, but this is balanced out by the fact that the elite units need to have a cetain percentage of catholicism in a region before they can be recruited. The Order is reliant on those troops to expand and further it's goals so this balances things and prevents the Order from becoming too powerful, too quickly. The Orders units also cost more because of their higher stats so things are also balanced out this way.

For the Crusades, like the Teutonic campaign all cavalry are stronger with higher secondary attacks. But unlike the Teutonic campaign, the Crusader factions do not have superior troops compared to their Muslim enemies. Even so the Crusader nations will be fairly reliant on their strong cavalry to win the campaign.

With Britannia it is spears that are the unit type that receive a boost. This results in a proliferation of good anti-cavalry units, so infantry will dominate the Britannia campaign. But cavalry are not completely negated, they will still be usable units, just not as powerful as in the Crusades or Teutonic campaigns.

And finally in the Americas campaign, New Spain gets smaller units, but sword armed infantry and cavalry with 2 hit points, and a new generals unit with 3. This is to reflect the small numbers of Spanish troops used in the New World, and the extra hit points prevent the smaller units from being overwhelmed. Unit costs are also adjusted to reflect these changes, so overall most units are cheaper but Spanish units are about the same as in M2TW. The Native units will not be pushovers either, and will put up a strong fight.

That just about wraps up my overview of the balance changes made through the unit stats and hopefulle, gives you an idea as to how you'll be adapting your tactics to use these changes in each of the four campaigns in Kingdoms.

Regards,

Jack Lusted "

[_Tristan_]

Interesting thanks guys, i guess that the kurdish units will be javelin armed ?


As far as i know there will be major changes in the unit stats which will effect their performances alot. A quote from totalwarblog.com:

In fact those unit stats rebalances only affect the way the Kingdoms mini-campaigns play...

AFAIK if you want to have those same rebalances in the Grand Campaign, you'll need to get the Retrofit mod released by Unspoken Knight (CA Staff member) on twcenter

[Zenicetus]

As far as i know there will be major changes in the unit stats which will effect their performances alot. A quote from totalwarblog.com:

"As outlined in the recent blog by Jason, there has been some significant re-balancing of unit stats for Kingdoms, the expansion pack for Medieval II. I am Jack Lusted, now a Games Tester at The Creative Assembly UK, but when I helped Jason by contributing to the balancing of Kingdoms I was a modder from the Total War Community.

Although the last blog described the process involved in balancing Kingdoms, it did not say what has changed. In this blog I will aim to explain how the balance has altered from Medieval II, give examples of how specific units have changed, what most unit types should be used for, and how the balance varies between the four Kingdoms campaigns.

The re-balance is not a small one, there have been some big changes. Almost all, if not all of the units have had changes to their stats. Some minor, some major. This is to reflect the fact that the whole balance of the game has been re-examined.

Yes, but only for Kingdoms expansion, not the main M2TW game. It seems that that weren't enough programmer or testing resources to balance both the new Kingdoms mini-campaigns, and also the original game. This was made clear in this sticky thread (it's long... the relevant info is in the last pages):

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=89698

[The Outsider]

Ok i see what u mean but isnt this strange (taken from the quote above) : Cost: 520 (390 in Americas where all unit costs are lower. More on that later)

Its the price of the zweihanders for the americas but i thought in kingdoms HRE was not playeble in americas campaign only the spanih (as a european faction) so where is this change take effect if not in the mai campaign?

[Ravie]

In All Era for custom and multiplayer games.