any thoughts ?

[econ21]

Yes they do pay their wages which allows the state to specify the curriculum but not the ethos which is gauranteed by the patron of the school not neccasarily but likely to be a member of the clergy.

Ethos is distinct from admissions. I've seen Catholic schools keep their ethos despite very multi-cultural and multi-faith admissions. (In fact, they are famous for it in parts of the world like Africa.)

This story about black children being discriminated against is pure nonsence if racism is at the root of it let charges be brought. The reality is the children are new arivals to the area the places are at a premium someone has to lose unfortunately. Interestingly no white people have being asked how they feel about having no place for their child which I can assure the members of the org is happening due in no small part to unrestricted development and the demographic explosion in the suburbs.

You may be right, but the report was about one suburb were only blacks turned up at the meeting of excluded parents and where some complained of queue-jumping by newer white arrivals.

Simply put the goverment should have got off its ass years ago and projected these trends but it didnt so now we have the situation we are in. Not racism but INACTION

Again, you may be right about the long term. But the short term government reaction - build a new school for the 100 excluded blacks - sounds weak. I'd prefer them to build the school and from day one make sure admissions were mixed - if need be using lotteries and overriding with the two elementary school's admissions policies (which have failed).

[Tribesman]

if need be using lotteries and overriding with the two elementary school's admissions policies (which have failed).

They didn't fail , its just that some people didn't register their children in time , blame the parents .

If the state pays all - or almost all - the tuition costs, then one might expect it to insist that disadvantaged groups are not excluded due to having the wrong religion.

OK forget the myth about free education , thats the same as the myth about free health care over here .
A privately run/owned school has its own policies(within limits) it cannot insist that it excludes certain groups , but if it is oversubscribed it can choose its customers .
It could increase its intake , either by building more classrooms which means more land and more expense , or it can increase class sizes , which leads to lowering the quality of the goods it delivers which in turn leads to less customers wanting its services .

But the short term government reaction - build a new school for the 100 excluded blacks - sounds weak.

The government reaction is to see if they can encourage someone else to build a new school .

[InsaneApache]

I think I may well be considering my next business plan. Sorted!

[econ21]

They didn't fail , its just that some people didn't register their children in time , blame the parents .

The report seems ambiguous on this. The parents of excluded children seem to think that religious preference - rather than just failure to register - played a role. They also think some whites did not register in time and got places. Maybe they are wrong, but the fact that all the excluded pupils at the meeting were black makes it smell to me.

If the excluded parents are right, then the policies did fail in that they end up with 100 excluded black kids. If it were 100 randomly selected kids, then that's just a planning issue - not one of discrimination. But as it is, you really are storing up trouble for the future with that kind of social exclusion. It may not matter to the individual school who set the policies, but collectively for the community, it is a failure.

OK forget the myth about free education , thats the same as the myth about free health care over here .

Enlighten me - what will the parents be paying to enrol in those two elementary schools? A real private school in England charges about £6k per child minimum.

A privately run/owned school has its own policies(within limits) it cannot insist that it excludes certain groups , but if it is oversubscribed it can choose its customers .

What it can or cannot do ultimately is a political issue (especially if, as I suspect, it is dependent on state funding). That's what we are debating - unless you want to move to the liberatarian side of the political alignment graph.

The government reaction is to see if they can encourage someone else to build a new school .

That sounds even weaker than I thought. Most people accept there's a right to basic education - if someone else won't provide it, the state should step in.

[Tribesman]

The report seems ambiguous on this. The parents of excluded children seem to think that religious preference - rather than just failure to register - played a role. They also think some whites did not register in time and got places. Maybe they are wrong, but the fact that all the excluded pupils at the meeting were black makes it smell to me.

Many things played a role , the influx into the area is the main one coupled with badly planned development . Some parents at the meeting say it was religeous , others say it was racial , others say it was because they didn't understand the system , others say that because they didn't know where they were moving to they didn't get a chance to apply , others say that because they havn't got cars they cannot do what other parents who missed places did and try other areas (some parents are going as far as Drogheda to obtain a school place .
So for you to mention that all the families were black does lead onto both the housing market and housing policies , which could be said to be failing . Which nicely deals with your next section

If the excluded parents are right......but collectively for the community, it is a failure.

Enlighten me - what will the parents be paying to enrol in those two elementary schools? A real private school in England charges about £6k per child minimum.

I don't know , the wife deals with all that stuff , but it cannot be compared to real public school fees in Britain , they are not meant to be free are they , unless you get a scholarship ?

What it can or cannot do ultimately is a political issue

Yep , but its Irish politics , they don't like issues . If however the parents were to pay a few errrr.....political donations in the right direction they would have all the schools they could wish for .

That sounds even weaker than I thought. Most people accept there's a right to basic education - if someone else won't provide it, the state should step in.

Yep , the state did step in , they asked a group that runs some schools to step in , the step in will provide 56 places in the short term until someone else wants to step in .
Most people accept that there is a right to basic education , just like there is a right to decent healthcare , roads that are not pothole filled death traps , tap water that you can actually use ......it doesn't mean that you get them though

[InsaneApache]

It sounds like an unmitigated disaster for the kids and Eire.

Tell me, has the ROI got to grips with 'multiculturalism'* or is it just being ignored by the powers that be?

*Subtext; Immigration.

[Tribesman]

It sounds like an unmitigated disaster for the kids and Eire.

Eire is an unmittigated disaster from the outset of independance

Tell me, has the ROI got to grips with 'multiculturalism'* or is it just being ignored by the powers that be?

usual knee jerk short term fixes with a very large measure of ignoring .
What can you say when Bertie makes a new cabinet position of minister for integration , then puts a racist biggot in charge
But anyway on education , there is a primary school at the bottom of the road , it gives good education results , it gets extra funding and very big grant assistance .
Unlike the schools in Balbriggan it didn't close this septembers registration back in february (which is quite late really) it closed it about two and a half years ago , it doesn't matter what your religeon is if you apply , it has no nationality or colour code , this years new class intake is over 30% of african extraction , they knew to get their kids registered in time if they wanted to go to that school
The only condition it places on admittance is that you don't have your kids taught English at school .

[InsaneApache]

Eire is an unmittigated disaster from the outset of independance

Your not a closet unionist are you?

I'm no educationalist, but it seems that the current GCSE's are about as relevant as the old CSE. There is a website, god knows where, in it they compare GCE's with GCSE's.

Guess what?

They (GCE's) were harder. Not to mention more academic.

Our kids are being manipulated for social engineering. An utter disgrace.

Sorry to pull it off topic.