When did Creative Assembly become a symbol of evil?

[barvaz]

However, CA definitely does have a say in it in my opinion, I don't believe SEGA just dictates them "use SecuROM or leave".

Well, it depends or their specific contracts and agreements but it is more than likely that like many other publishers, SEGA controls the distribution, installation, packaging, manual , EULA and copy protection, among other things.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual software packaging, wrapping the game code with the installation software and integrating the 3rd party software like SecuROM is done by SEGA developers and not CA's themselves.

In any case, the final word is probably SEGA's and I don't imagine many game developers dropping their publisher for issues that not many consider fundamental (unlike distputes about money, artistic freedom or game design, for example) since copy protection at some level is considered de facto standard in the industry.


- barvaz

[alpaca]

Well, it depends or their specific contracts and agreements but it is more than likely that like many other publishers, SEGA controls the distribution, installation, packaging, manual , EULA and copy protection, among other things.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual software packaging, wrapping the game code with the installation software and integrating the 3rd party software like SecuROM is done by SEGA developers and not CA's themselves.

In any case, the final word is probably SEGA's and I don't imagine many game developers dropping their publisher for issues that not many consider fundamental (unlike distputes about money, artistic freedom or game design, for example) since copy protection at some level is considered de facto standard in the industry.


- barvaz

Ok I guess I have to back you here then. Had a chat with both Caliban and Palamedes today and neither of the two even knew that SecuROM was used in Kingdoms...

Anyways I'm a bit stumped at the total lack of comment from SEGA and CA on the issue. Maybe we should take it to the .com

[pevergreen]

Hmmm. Perhaps i should delve back into my starting forum, the Citadel.

If Palamedes and Caliban didn't know, that makes me suspicious.

After defending CA so much before M2TW came out, I gave myself a break. About to hook back into it for ETW.

In regards to CA, i agree with: the op, Husar and alpaca.

[sapi]

Ok I guess I have to back you here then. Had a chat with both Caliban and Palamedes today and neither of the two even knew that SecuROM was used in Kingdoms...

Anyways I'm a bit stumped at the total lack of comment from SEGA and CA on the issue. Maybe we should take it to the .com

Or give them a slight prod that the worst thing they could do now is to stay silent?

[ataribaby]

I have nothing but respect for Creative Assembly as they make awesome, deep and incredibly addictive games that I can play for years and years, and I do. Most of the stuff that people bash them for is out of their control. They deserve a measure of criticism like everyone else, sure, but not as harsh as they get IMO.

Well said mate. I've had the same feelings for several weeks. The hyperbolic ranting that goes on in games forums is pretty depressing. It really puts me off bothering being part of a community when the slightest problem is a 'gamebreaker', and the slightest sign of enthusiasm is subject to a gruelling browbeating.

I think the most depressing is the seeming lack of ability to appreciate what it takes to produce a game like M2TW. In all my 30 years of video gaming (I began on the Atari 2600 VCS, hence the screen name) I've seen a lot of advances. Games then were smaller in data size than your average WP document today (though they still had bugs ).

If only people could appreciate that with the levels of complexity we have now, that there are inevitably going to be glitches. Pointing them out, being a bit irritated by and/or suggesting work arounds to the community - fine. But piling the pressure on an already hard-pressed developer with rants of 'gamebreaker, blah-blah...' and 'my hard-earned cash, blah-blah...', seems tant amount to bullying. Who would ever bother to be a game developer again?

There seem to be too many people on these kinds of forums with a wildly distorted view of what it is to produce a game.

[Jasper The Builder]

I went out and brought Kingdoms after saying that i wouldn't bother due to the upheavals of problems i had with Medieval II. It works quite well and as of yet apart from a CTD after first installing mainly due to me not restarting my PC its been running fine and I'm quite happy with it

But i do disagree with people saying basically that its hard for developers to make games bug free and this and that, Then why sell them to the general public for high prices as they are "Kingdoms was £19.99 for me". Thats alot of money for me to pay out, But it was worth it. I didnt think the £29.99 i paid for MTWII was worth it though, It made me very angry that i had to change my hole PC make up just to suit one game

For those of us that money is hard to come by, I feel we have a right to complain and kick our feet and punch doors when spending alot of cash on games that are full of bugs!!

[Graphic]

Well said mate. I've had the same feelings for several weeks. The hyperbolic ranting that goes on in games forums is pretty depressing. It really puts me off bothering being part of a community when the slightest problem is a 'gamebreaker', and the slightest sign of enthusiasm is subject to a gruelling browbeating.

I think the most depressing is the seeming lack of ability to appreciate what it takes to produce a game like M2TW. In all my 30 years of video gaming (I began on the Atari 2600 VCS, hence the screen name) I've seen a lot of advances. Games then were smaller in data size than your average WP document today (though they still had bugs ).

If only people could appreciate that with the levels of complexity we have now, that there are inevitably going to be glitches. Pointing them out, being a bit irritated by and/or suggesting work arounds to the community - fine. But piling the pressure on an already hard-pressed developer with rants of 'gamebreaker, blah-blah...' and 'my hard-earned cash, blah-blah...', seems tant amount to bullying. Who would ever bother to be a game developer again?

There seem to be too many people on these kinds of forums with a wildly distorted view of what it is to produce a game.

Nicely put. Agree 100%.

I didnt think the £29.99 i paid for MTWII was worth it though, It made me very angry that i had to change my hole PC make up just to suit one game

I was running M2TW on my previous machine at 1.0, just barely, BARELY, meeting the minimum specs, and I didn't have to change anything about my PC settings or hardware. Are you sure you met the system requirements or didn't have some huge problem on your end?

[Satyr]

Quite frankly, the anger was even more intense after Rome was released. There was even a campaign to smear RTW on Amazon. The problem is that the same problems exist in the game 2 years later so someone has made a decision that decent AI is NOT important in the Total War games. I am sure that it is a monetary decision and comes down to the fact that out of the hundreds of thousands (millions yet?) that buy the game, only a few are serious enough about the game to care. The average noob only spends a few weeks/months playing and just wants to win so a crappy AI is an asset.

I have only encountered 2 strategic game developers that really care about their AI and they are Firaxis (Civ4) and Stardock (Galactic Civ2). CA just isn't one of those companies that puts the time and resources into creating a challenging game. They were when they started, but they haven't been in a long time. When you realize this, and that they probably have valid monetary reasons, you will realize that it is time to move onto other company's games if an AI is actually important to you. I know I have.

[SpencerH]

Quite frankly, the anger was even more intense after Rome was released. There was even a campaign to smear RTW on Amazon. The problem is that the same problems exist in the game 2 years later so someone has made a decision that decent AI is NOT important in the Total War games. I am sure that it is a monetary decision and comes down to the fact that out of the hundreds of thousands (millions yet?) that buy the game, only a few are serious enough about the game to care. The average noob only spends a few weeks/months playing and just wants to win so a crappy AI is an asset.

I have only encountered 2 strategic game developers that really care about their AI and they are Firaxis (Civ4) and Stardock (Galactic Civ2). CA just isn't one of those companies that puts the time and resources into creating a challenging game. They were when they started, but they haven't been in a long time. When you realize this, and that they probably have valid monetary reasons, you will realize that it is time to move onto other company's games if an AI is actually important to you. I know I have.

Just to be clear to those who werent here. It wasnt a smear campaign. We have every right to put our opinions onto amazon about the items listed there. I actually bought RTW at Amazon and felt quite OK about posting my opinions of it. Certain CA members here did get a little "miffed" though.

[SpencerH]

Well said mate. I've had the same feelings for several weeks. The hyperbolic ranting that goes on in games forums is pretty depressing. It really puts me off bothering being part of a community when the slightest problem is a 'gamebreaker', and the slightest sign of enthusiasm is subject to a gruelling browbeating.

I think the most depressing is the seeming lack of ability to appreciate what it takes to produce a game like M2TW. In all my 30 years of video gaming (I began on the Atari 2600 VCS, hence the screen name) I've seen a lot of advances. Games then were smaller in data size than your average WP document today (though they still had bugs ).

If only people could appreciate that with the levels of complexity we have now, that there are inevitably going to be glitches. Pointing them out, being a bit irritated by and/or suggesting work arounds to the community - fine. But piling the pressure on an already hard-pressed developer with rants of 'gamebreaker, blah-blah...' and 'my hard-earned cash, blah-blah...', seems tant amount to bullying. Who would ever bother to be a game developer again?

There seem to be too many people on these kinds of forums with a wildly distorted view of what it is to produce a game.

I dont know about anyone else, but I dont give a crap what effort it takes to make a game. It's irrelevant. I'm here to voice my disappointment with M2TW in the hope that CA will make a game that I can enjoy. I have no false hope that it will have any effect though; CA didnt appear to take notice of us during and after RTW.


BTW, I would gladly pay more for new TW games if thats what it took for CA to develop games that weren't "RTS in fancy dress". On the other hand though, I wont pay for any more like RTW and M2TW. In fact if I could get my money back for M2TW I'd gladly send it back.

[Graphic]

I have no false hope that it will have any effect though; CA didnt appear to take notice of us during and after RTW.

Did you ever think that's because the majority of the criticism, like your post, was hyperbolic rantings and ravings full of exaggerations, insults, and threats? Do you honestly expect anyone to take that seriously?

[Noir]

Originally posted by Graphic
Did you ever think that's because the majority of the criticism, like your post, was hyperbolic rantings and ravings full of exaggerations, insults, and threats? Do you honestly expect anyone to take that seriously?

You must be joking right?

If you read the forums for STW/MTW, you'll find that TW fans were extremely hopeful, dedicated and made tons of suggestions for CA essentially playtesting and correcting their games for them. Some people even put forth guides for the SP and MP games spreading the word for TW long before the fanbase got swarmed with (RTW) veterans, in the period that these games were sold neither on appearances nor prestige, but on the fascination and immersiveness they offered and good gameplay.

The "thank you" from the part of CA was full fledged ignorance in the knowledge that their newer games were succesful commercially and that whoever doesn't like them may criticise all they want now as it changes nill.

I'm sorry to say though that for me this attitude doesn't make their newer games any better than the low gameplay standard and unfinished state they are released.

Noir

[SpencerH]

Did you ever think that's because the majority of the criticism, like your post, was hyperbolic rantings and ravings full of exaggerations, insults, and threats? Do you honestly expect anyone to take that seriously?

My post was filled with hyperbolic rantings? Feel free to point them out...