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  1. #1
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Screw human nature! It's still unacceptable, whether it's "in our nature" or not is irrelevant. You can argue that it's completely in our nature to rape women, but it's still despicable.
    I suspect that Macsen was noting the tendency as a descriptive. I suspect he believes we should strive to "rise above" that norm.
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    I think group membership has to be decided by the group. The problem with that is that if you pick the wrong group you could be in trouble.

    Christianity here is a good example. Whatever any real Christian says at the end of the day they want you to be part of their sect becuase that group holds their beliefs. That's why there are sects.

    With this in mind it's worth pointing out that Mormanism departs from mainstream Christianity in a massive way. Although the mainstram Morman Church no longer allows Polytheism I know there's at least one breakaway sect.

    The big question is; "Are Mormans Christians"

    HoreTore says they are because they say they are. Any mainstream Christian would be bound to say "No."

    Whoever wrote the webpage feels they are so far divorced from Christianity they must be Aliens. That shows a very narrow world view, to say the least.
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    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Kinda OT but kolob is a hebrew word for the place where God lives, just in case you never found the answer.

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    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Lignator
    Kinda OT but kolob is a hebrew word for the place where God lives, just in case you never found the answer.
    So... you are saying God is an Alien?



    Alright, I am pulling your leg here.

    Yes I found much information on Kolob and there is a consensus that it could have been derived from the Semitic word QLB (yes they use no vowels) which means heart, middle or centre.

    I have read the book of Abraham found in the Mormon (not Mor[e]man) Pearl of great price, and Kolob should be the Star or first creation closest to where God is. It is a governing body and is the first in a hierarchy of governing bodies (I interpret that as stars). Its revolution is that of 1000 years and apparently is the slowest in the hierarchy of stars. Somewhere in this hierarchy we find our solar system and our world. Kolob governs all, but there are at least 15 stars mentioned with a higher governing status than our Sun.

    I could speculate what the writer is trying to tell us here, but it is hard not to think of other creations like our world. If you read the Pearl there is also a book of Moses which is quite interesting. In contrary to Genesis it has a prologue which describes Moses’ encounter with God before the: “In the beginning …” There are clearly references to other worlds populated with creations created in the image of God; worlds without numbers, worlds that was destroyed because of unbelief. Moses learns that he is a son of God, which further explained means he was created in the form, image and likeness of God.

    The LDS (lds.org) site has all its scripture online and if any of you have interests in these things it is worth a read.
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    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Screw human nature! It's still unacceptable, whether it's "in our nature" or not is irrelevant. You can argue that it's completely in our nature to rape women, but it's still despicable.


    I suspect that Macsen was noting the tendency as a descriptive. I suspect he believes we should strive to "rise above" that norm.
    Thank you, Seamus this was indeed my point, as should be pretty clear from what preceded it, ie

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    I'm sure anyone with any sense of self-awareness will recognise they have faults and failings, which are individual and personal, unrelated to - and unredeemed by - any group membership.

    It is this actual tendency to demonise groups which is at the core of fascist/nationalist/fundamentalist movements which label "the other" as somehow lesser than the "in group", whether that is "blacks are sub-human", "Jews are parasites" or "Mormons are aliens". All I'm saying is that it happens, not that it is right. As far as I'm concerned, we are all individuals.


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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by macsen rufus
    Thank you, Seamus this was indeed my point, as should be pretty clear from what preceded it, ie
    Yes yes, I kinda figured that was your intention, consider my reply as backup
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
    The big question is; "Are Mormans Christians"

    HoreTore says they are because they say they are. Any mainstream Christian would be bound to say "No."
    I would call them Christians who do not subscribe to the Nicene Creed. They venerate Christ as savior, which makes it hard to put them into any other category. Admittedly, they also believe a lot of other oddball stuff, but that's neither here nor there. The foundation of their belief is Jesus Christ.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
    The big question is; "Are Mormans Christians"

    HoreTore says they are because they say they are. Any mainstream Christian would be bound to say "No."
    Why do you think that you are capable of judging who is to be called a christian or not? Isn't that something you should, well I don't know, leave to your God?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Why do you think that you are capable of judging who is to be called a christian or not? Isn't that something you should, well I don't know, leave to your God?
    You're assuming I'm a mainstream Christian.

    In any case I would have said the same thing when I was an avowed atheist.

    Mormans venerate Jesus Christ but they also venerate Joseph Smith as a new prophet, and they add a third testemant which is the direct word of God via gold tablets. If they're Christians then maybe Muslims are as well.

    Kukri, by mainstream I mean those christians that accept the creed. As the wiki notes, those and the Mormans are having spats over the pond.
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    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
    You're assuming I'm a mainstream Christian.

    In any case I would have said the same thing when I was an avowed atheist.

    Mormans venerate Jesus Christ but they also venerate Joseph Smith as a new prophet, and they add a third testemant which is the direct word of God via gold tablets. If they're Christians then maybe Muslims are as well.

    Kukri, by mainstream I mean those christians that accept the creed. As the wiki notes, those and the Mormans are having spats over the pond.
    So.. you are saying both mainstream Christians and non mainstream Christians would
    disregard Mormons as Christians.

    This is troublesome at best for someone that looks at the concept of Christian from the outside.

    I agree with H.Tore that it should not be up to the different denominations to denounce anyone. It is a well known verse that states; Judge ye not, lest ye be judged.
    You should not judge what you cannot judge.
    In every dictionary the definition of a Christian is a follower of Christ; someone following the teachings of Christ and one who exemplifies Christ’s teachings in his/her way of living.
    In this H.Tore is right, only Jesus Christ can judge whether someone is following his teachings or not. According to Christian lore this will happen at judgement day…

    Let’s see,
    Mormons is a nickname and was never the official name of neither the church nor its followers.
    The original name of the Church is; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints.
    They baptise in the name of Christ.
    All prayers end with; in the name of Jesus Christ.
    They believe in salvation because of the atonement of Christ and his mercy, also called grace.
    They have another testament of Jesus Christ.
    They believe Jehovah was Jesus Christ.

    There is a whole lot of Christ in there to not make the obvious connection.

    And if you make adopting the Nicene Creed a prerequisite to be named Christian, then you got to disregard an awful lot of early disciples as Christians, including st.Peter, st.James, st.John and st.Paul.

    And don't the mainstream Christians venerate the Pope? Don't tell me that Catholics are not mainstream.
    Last edited by Sigurd; 09-10-2007 at 15:28.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

    And don't the mainstream Christians venerate the Pope? Don't tell me that Catholics are not mainstream.
    Most evangelical Protestants and many mainstream ones don't consider Catholics to be Christian at all, not just not mainstream. At least not in America. Read the Bob Jones University website or any of the 6 Chick Tracts published on the matter.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Most evangelical Protestants and many mainstream ones don't consider Catholics to be Christian at all, not just not mainstream. At least not in America. Read the Bob Jones University website or any of the 6 Chick Tracts published on the matter.
    Well, the bible clearly says you shall have no gods besides God and catholics pray to a lot of saints who were declared such by the pope who is a human.
    And there are a lot more things that make some christians like me think that catholics aren't really following the bible. That doesn't mean they're all bad people, it just means that the vatican is apparently full of bad people.


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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
    And don't the mainstream Christians venerate the Pope? Don't tell me that Catholics are not mainstream.
    Revere and respect? Yes. Venerate? I would say no. We don't worship the pope.
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    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mormons = Aliens

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Revere and respect? Yes. Venerate? I would say no. We don't worship the pope.
    But you [you said we] do respect him as your suprime leader. A spokesperson for God so to speak.

    I have not asked a Chatholic this before, but IF God were to speak or reveal his will to man. IF God decided that Deism is no longer His ways [then again Catholics never was Deists] and made a visit. Who would be the first He would make contact with?

    Oh... and if venerate means worship, then I guess the Mormons don't venerate Joseph Smith either. I hardly doubt they are praying to Joseph or in his name.
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