Mercenaries and what you can do with them

[Sensei Warrior]

I agree about the whole realism thing. I mean if the game was uber-accurate, we'd never conquer the map, or maybe not even allowed to conquer the map.

I just thought of something. Has anyone ever played a whole game, using mostly to all merc troops? Something like, outside garrison troops (troops you use to keep provence from rebelling, usually 1-2 units of peasants), and troops attached to a leading general (an actual govenor), all others must be mercenaries.

I wonder if it can be done? I think it can. Cant wait to get near my comp to try it.

[macsen rufus]

I just thought of something. Has anyone ever played a whole game, using mostly to all merc troops? Something like, outside garrison troops (troops you use to keep provence from rebelling, usually 1-2 units of peasants), and troops attached to a leading general (an actual govenor), all others must be mercenaries.

Now that's an interesting possibility - downside woulde be cost of troops and upkeep, but assuming all you needed to train would be peasants for garrison (or anything else that can come from the fort, like slav warriors etc), your teching-up costs would be minimal.

That would be quite a challenge, maybe I'll give it a go, too

So the general "rules" for such a challenge would be:
* NO military buildings (spearmaker, bowyer, horsebreeder etc etc etc) just INNS for recruitment of mercs
* only trainable troops to be those that come from forts
* the only other faction troops would be ROYALS/ex-royals
* hmmm, what about crusades/jihads?
* is bribery allowed - I would say yes, I think.

We may well learn the limits of the "mercenary pool" in a campaign like this

[Ignoramus]

I've done it many times. It's sadly a very effective way of winning. Why bother upgrading your provinces when you can quickly assemble a formidable army of mercs.

You simply blitz the weaker enemy in order to fund your soldiers.

[Prussian1]

I've done it many times. It's sadly a very effective way of winning. Why bother upgrading your provinces when you can quickly assemble a formidable army of mercs.

You simply blitz the weaker enemy in order to fund your soldiers.

That's actually pretty cool . . .

Did you have any issues of mercs being unavailable?

[Martok]

Did you have any issues of mercs being unavailable?

I'm curious about this as well. I know mercenaries are more likely to show up in border provinces (as they're undersandably drawn to where the wars are), but I've always wondered whether *enough* mercs would appear to sustain one's armies.

[Sensei Warrior]

Now that's an interesting possibility - downside woulde be cost of troops and upkeep, but assuming all you needed to train would be peasants for garrison (or anything else that can come from the fort, like slav warriors etc), your teching-up costs would be minimal.

That would be quite a challenge, maybe I'll give it a go, too

Seems, like I threw down the gauntlet somewhere. Whoot! Let us see, as long as I've got an interested party, rules are a good thing.

So the general "rules" for such a challenge would be:
* NO military buildings (spearmaker, bowyer, horsebreeder etc etc etc) just INNS for recruitment of mercs

Agreed. Although retraining Royal Units is gonna be a pain in the hoop. Are we considering ship-building buildings a no no? I cant imagine we are, at least not if we want to trade. And what about the cannon foundry stuff late game? That technically should be added in as well.

* only trainable troops to be those that come from forts

Agreed. Watch and I'll be grabbing Scotland ASAP.

* the only other faction troops would be ROYALS/ex-royals

Agreed, but as stated above, if we cant build the buildings, then no being able to retrain the Royals.

* hmmm, what about crusades/jihads?

I think Crusades/Jihads should be allowed, but go easy on the Jihad spamming.

* is bribery allowed - I would say yes, I think.

Yes, all sorts of vile deviant treachery is allowed. Burn em, stick em, and bribe em are all acceptable.

We may well learn the limits of the "mercenary pool" in a campaign like this

I believe you're right. Now for the Nitty-gritty. Will it be Total Domination or GA mode? It would seem GA mode would put us in a Roleplay type of mood and stop some of the potential steamrollering Ignoramus was refering too. In the end I have no objections to either.

ERA? Early, High or Late? Or doesnt matter?

Are we going to dictate a skill restriction. Easy, Normal, Hard, Expert? If we insist on Expert, it'll take me a bit longer, I really have to concentrate on that setting in order to do well. Although Hard is not a problem in the concentration dept.

I am a firm believer of being able to Pick your own faction, but I think it would suck for our audience if we picked the same one. Which faction were you thinking about using?

[Prussian1]

Are we considering ship-building buildings a no no?

I wouldn't think so on a technicality that ship building is an economic activity

And what about the cannon foundry stuff late game? That technically should be added in as well. ?

That technicality being?

Will it be Total Domination or GA mode? It would seem GA mode would put us in a Roleplay type of mood and stop some of the potential steamrollering Ignoramus was refering too.

Agreed

ERA? Early, High or Late? Or doesnt matter?

My opinion is Early and High. By the Late period, you would be seeing National Armies start to emerge. So what if you played with only mercs in early and high, but could start fielding national armies in late? It would give you a reason to build those pesky military buildings so you didn't get stuck with vanilla spearmen in the 15th century.

Are we going to dictate a skill restriction. Easy, Normal, Hard, Expert?

I think this is personal preference . .

[Sensei Warrior]

I am going to be very close to my comp very soon, so here's what I've got so far. I am going to start a new campaign to try out the merc thing. Its going to be The English-Early-Hard-GA-MTW:VI 2.01. I'll be towing the line with the following:

No military buildings of any kind. Buildings associated with Ship-building is the only exception, since it is reasonable that ships really are more of an economic activity.

Only troops that can be 'built' will come from forts, and the inevitable gain of royalty troops.

There will be Crusading since its a GA goal.

There will be unabashed use of non-military units (assassins, inquisitors, emissaries, and etc).

I'll see what I can do about keeping everyone posted.

[macsen rufus]

I hadn't thought about cannon foundries! I've been stuck in the Bronze Age so long I'd totally forgotten about ships that need cannons

Definitely we will require ships, as pointed out above, they are an economic element, as well as a logistical one. I could imagine playing "Sicily, no ships" would be a bit tough You'd have to wait til you could bribe a mainland army...

I'd personally go with the mercs straight through all eras, even in Late, just to maintain the flavour of the game.

As for Crusades and Jihads, I tend to play the "one active, one spare marker" rule in my campaigns, and I think that should help to keep it sensible. One major issue with mercs is the support costs, and having multiple Crusades/Jihads could be bit of a financial exploit.

Also, the AI factions will have to tech up to produce troops, whereas the "Mercenary human" player can destroy all their buildings for profit. I wonder whether this would prove too much of a disadvantage to the AI?

Agreed the difficulty level is a choice for individual players, as in any other campaign. And also agreed on the use of agents, burn, stick and bribe away! I think a close look at the build_prod file to check out buildings' "mercenary magnetism" may help this campaign along as well

I'm undecided on the GA/Conquest mode, as I personally rarely play in GA (but then I mostly play mods where it isn't an option , that and I forget it's an option when loading a new campaign.)

So, I might have a go from the opposite corner of the map, Egypt or Turkey, although Danes could be fun as well (Viking thralls from the fort ) My first thought was the English, but I'll happily await Sensei's experiences on that front.

[Sensei Warrior]

OK, well I started the campaign and have gone through to 1097. Its been a bit of a slow slog through. I'm not as far along as I like to be at this point, but my kids underfoot have distracted me from some key moves.

Anyways, I started a typical opening bid by bribing Wales, attacking Scotland with my 2nd heir (the first one made me nervous, he appeared with the Secret Perversions Vice), and then moving my starting troops towards Flanders. I have left the French alone for the moment, and allied with the Spanish, the Agonese, and HRE.

There are inns in every Provence I own. Right now thats all the starting ones plus Wales and Scotland. The only units I have produced thus far are Peasants as promised. I used the bribed units from Wales and other starting units to attack Scotland.

I did destroy all the starting military buildings in my provences, even though there weren't that many. The one that had me nervous was the horse breeder that produces Hobilars in Aquitaine.

Another thing that made me a bit nervous was the fact that there were a number of years that went by in the beginning that didn't have any Mercs at all. None. For the first 5-9 years I had zero Mercs in my Inns (must have been the bad beer and ugly women ). I don't know if that was just my game, or it takes the comp awhile to 'stock' them or what.

As of 1097 an assortment of troops can be bought. There was 1 Spearmen, 1 Armored Spearmen, 1 Feudal Sergeant, 1 Kwazarim Cavalry, 1 Mounted Sergeant, and a couple more that didnt catch my eye. Obviously I was scanning the troops for Spear types to protect my vast hordes of Archers, and Cavalry. Cavalry and Melee troops are in short supply for me right now.

French smack down is the next order of business, and I'll keep everyone posted.

EDIT:
To:macsen rufus
Good I figured you might have forgotten about the Foundries being needed for some ships. Of course this will give some units, but I'll just try and stay away from them.

Agreed. Since the game I started is a GA game, I'm sure I'll be playing in late. I'll use whatever Mercs I can access the whole way through the game.

Agreed, I usually Crusade my way across N. Africa and the such. This game I plan on using Crusades on my GA goals. After that, I plan on using them sparingly if at all.

I figure the whole GA/TD decision is a personal thing. I do GAs rarely, but usually have fun when I do. I'd say go with what you're comfortable with, you running a TD game might give another perspective anyways.

Muwahaha ... AHEM, I mean, I am very sorry to steal the English from ya. The last couple of posts from you I remember reading you were referring to Muslim Factions, I just hoped you liked playing them more.

/END EDIT

Sorry for the lengthy post, lots of ground to cover.