Mercenaries and what you can do with them

[macsen rufus]

So far Syria is my big merc recruiting ground, and the odd unit or two pops up in Armenia. I've seen - but not necessarily been able to hire - armoured spearmen, jinettes, hobbies, Druzhina, Faris, FMAA, Bulg Brigands, Turc horse, archers, Italian Inf, vanilla spears, Feudal sergeants, catapults, Rus spears, trebuchet (1 only - lost it in a siege ), horse archers, Arab infantry, militia sergeants.

I know from previous experience thouigh that mercs will tend to congregate at your front line. Hence as Syria borders Egyptian territory where I am at war, it has more mercs than Armenia which borders neutral Byz lands. The presence of a port should help too, as that has a mercenary magnetism factor.

@ Martok, well, I've kept my camel training down to two units, mostly in preparation for the desert war - as you've probably noticed, most of my mercs have been quite heavily armoured for this stage of the game, so putting together a desert army is going a bit slowly.

I haven't got any ships in the water yet, but building up Antioch for that next. I've already got my merchant running, and he's handing over 132fl in tax per year, so by the time I multiply that by a few ports I should be rolling in it

[Sensei Warrior]

macsen rufus and I are like duelling banjos in this thread. Next push is in so here we go.

Its 1133 and a whole heck of alot has happened. For starters, the French reemerged. Caught me off guard at first so lots of down and dirty battles. They reappeared in Champagne, the French Porvence that rebelled earlier in the game. During that time the Spanish have decided to attack as well, the traitorous dogs. They are really putting the screws to me, but I think I'll be able to ford through that as well. The Italians have decided to take a whack at my shipping lanes as well, but some lucky sea battles for me have the Italians licking their wounds.

I have a Crusade marker all ready to go and am hoovering up my still meager Merc supply. Maybe I shouldn't say that, there was alot of fighting going on during this push so it wasn't like they weren't being used. Anyways, I'm staged to Crusade to Palestine, my Crusading Objectives being my next goal.

Moneywise I am the richest. I have a good amount coming in, and a large amount going out to keep the Mercs well paid.

I have been getting the same variety of Mercs as macsen so nothing different there. Mercs almost always proc on my border states. An occassional Port city away from the front may have 1 every once in awhile but not often. It also seems that my Provences that border a faction I am at war with produce a good deal more Mercs then ones that just border another faction. When the French attacked me, Flanders started to have large amounts of Mercs, about double what they usually did. When Spain back doored me, Aquitaine's Merc supply doubled as well.

Another thing that I noticed that was interesting was when HRE moved a Crusade through my lands. The year after the Crusade passed through the Provence, I had 8-9 units of troops available in that Provence but the units had very few men in the unit, (like a unit of Archers with 3men). I also noticed when I disbanded a unit of Longbowmen (they only had 3 men left in the unit) the next year that unit was available (with the same 3 men, also the same general) as a unit of Mercs. The year after that they disappeared.

Complaint time. What a pain in the hoop Mercs are. You cant do anything with them. I can't merge 2 units together to get a full unit or anything. I have a ton of units at 1/2 to 1/3 full. I'm not sure if I should disband them or what. Right now they are border guards. I was goin to try and replace them when full Merc units became available, but everyone started English hatin so they were sent on the defense.

Well thats it for now, I'm sure this weekend I'm gonna have alot more to tell so see you guys then.

[Martok]

Appreciate hearing your results, guys. Looking forward to hearing more next week.

I also noticed when I disbanded a unit of Longbowmen (they only had 3 men left in the unit) the next year that unit was available (with the same 3 men, also the same general) as a unit of Mercs. The year after that they disappeared.

I'd noticed that early on when I first started playing the game. If you disband regular units, they're likely to reappear as mercs. I think it's a nice touch, actually.

[Sensei Warrior]

I must admit my ignorance with using Mercs. I never used them in the past. Heck I really don't even bother building Inns. Noticing the Longbowmen appearing as Mercs, and what seems to be the units that go AWOL while Crusading appearing as Mercs, makes me wonder how Mercs appear in the game.

Does the game wait until factions start disbanding units, or losing units through Crusade attrition? Does it manufacture units yearly or periodically to make them available as Mercs? Is it a mixture of both? I suspect the answer lies closer to the last one, it does both. Do those units end up Touring the Inns, like people who go barhopping?

I never really thought much about Mercs before. This little exercise has peaked my interest in those little details, even though IMHO I will never rely on Mercs solely again. I like nice full units, not to mention this must be the first game that I've played as the English that I haven't been able to tinker with Tancred de Normandie. I believe I might be going through withdrawl.

[macsen rufus]

I'm not sure where the mercs "come from" in the normal run of things. Sure, disbanded units show up in the inns, but the AI doesn't disband units. The "Crusade fragments" is a new discovery though I hadn't realised before that crusade deserters would enter the merc pool, I thought they just vanished into the hills until now.

The lack of merging does make it more difficult, as I mentioned earlier, I liked that ability when it was still available in "vanilla vanilla" MTW. So Crusades and largely merc armies give you bit of a double whammy unfortunately. The Crusade Hoover (TM) gathers a percentage from each province it passes through. Which means you get a fragmented unit in the Crusade and a fragmented unit left behind, neither of which can be remerged to make up numbers.

As for the barhopping - yes they do, I often see a unit appear in one province, then if it's not hired, the next year the inn may be empty and the unit has moved closer to the front line, maybe thinking the wages are better there

If you disband regular units, they're likely to reappear as mercs. I think it's a nice touch, actually.

Agreed, although my usual thought is along the lines: "Oh I remember you, you're the corrupt, two-toed sloth who prefers boys to girls, and runs away before realising the enemy has already surrendered, and now you think I'm going to take you back at double wages???"

[Prussian1]

Agreed, although my usual thought is along the lines: "Oh I remember you, you're the corrupt, two-toed sloth who prefers boys to girls, and runs away before realising the enemy has already surrendered, and now you think I'm going to take you back at double wages???"

I can't imagine why I a guy who just got clipped decides to hang out looking for work IN THE SAME PROVINCE!!

Unless the Chamberlain somehow manages to convince you that mercenaries come out of Current Expenses and not the Capital Budget, what's the odds of hiring them back?

[Sensei Warrior]

I've noticed something else kind of tricky. I haven't pinned what happened exactly, but will report on it just in case.

Well, when we last left I was at war with Spain (a problem), France (a nuisance), and a Crusade staged to take Palestine. Mercs had been trickling in a little but for the most part stopped. I took Palestine, and a little later Antioch. I must of overstretched my resources because Spain attacked Aquitaine with 4 stacks.

I was outnumbered 3 to 1, so a fighting retreat was in order. I lost Aquitaine, Anjou, Brittany, and Normandy, and no new Mercs appeared to replenish my losses. Weird, usually with this much fighting every Merc in the known world flocks to my doorstep. Several years later Il de France falls, my last army is squatting in Flanders, and I'm thinking I'm gonna have to report that I was wiped off the map.

As a last ditch effort I have 5 stacks of troops 3 in Palestine (under a 5* general with Skilled Defender, making him 6* while defending), and I have 2 stacks in Antioch. I abandon Palestine (I already got the GA points for it and there really is no point in staying, especially since I'm getting no new Mercs), and move the troops to Flanders to bolster the rag-tag defense I have there.

As I am reviewing what troops I have left in Flanders, I notice alot of units with 1-10 men in it. I disband them, they won't do much good in a fight, and as usual, I see them available in the Inn for hire. I end turn and pray Spain does not attack. They don't, and the next year the same troops I disbanded are available nothing new. I take care of buisness and end turn.

The next year new full units of troops are available at the Inn, alot of them. Well, I suck them up and go through my roster and see units with 10-20 units in it. I disband them.

The same thing happens more new full units of troops appear. Then I disband any 1/2 full troops, than any troops that have any missing at all. The same thing happens. Now, the part of this that makes it unfortunate is I am not keeping track of who I disbanded or how many. I am not sure if the Inn is replenishing the partial units I disbanded, or merging them together, but it happened to many times to be coincidental.

Anyways, I have gained all the land I've lost using this tactic. Money is pouring in from Antioch, and the other Provences. I have a decent lead in GA points, and I am thinking I have reached a critical mass of sorts, where it will be impossible to not stay in the top dog slot.

The only Faction that may be problematic is the Turkish. They have claimed all of the Byz's lands, some of Egypts, all of the rebel Provences of Eastern Europe, and lokk like they are about to wipe the Novrogod and Hungarians off the map. They are huge, but I forsee the Mongols giving them a run for there money soon. We shall see, I am off to play a few more years to see what happens.

EDIT I've played to 1250. I'm in the same spot I'm in before. It seems like there is some cap to how many Mercenaries you can have in play. It is approximately 5 stacks. I no longer have Mercs available unless unit groups get disbanded or die in battle. Tonight I plan on burn and raze back to Flanders, and regrouping, resetting my Merc armies and letting everyone know just how many units I think you can have in play. I'm sure it'll be approximate, but unless macsen rufus can shed some light on this then I do think I can progress any farther in the game.

FINAL EDIT Well I've counted, condensed, and recounted my Merc troops at a point where I am getting no more new troops. At the initial count I had 100 Merc units. I disbanded all partial units, cycled though 5 years, hiring as many full units as I could. At the end of the 5th year, I recounted the Merc units. I had 87. I am guessing the comp won't give, make, or allow the equivalent of 100 full units or so out into the game. That's an awful lot of units, but not enough in my opinion to win the game solely on the use of Merc troops.

[Bregil the Bowman]

I can't imagine why I a guy who just got clipped decides to hang out looking for work IN THE SAME PROVINCE!!

Unless the Chamberlain somehow manages to convince you that mercenaries come out of Current Expenses and not the Capital Budget, what's the odds of hiring them back?

Where I work (UK Civil Service) they are forever paying people off and bringing them back at twice the price as consultants.

I'll have to try that thing of disbanding mercenaries to merge them, though, sounds a good wheeze...