Mercenaries and what you can do with them

[Sensei Warrior]

I must admit my ignorance with using Mercs. I never used them in the past. Heck I really don't even bother building Inns. Noticing the Longbowmen appearing as Mercs, and what seems to be the units that go AWOL while Crusading appearing as Mercs, makes me wonder how Mercs appear in the game.

Does the game wait until factions start disbanding units, or losing units through Crusade attrition? Does it manufacture units yearly or periodically to make them available as Mercs? Is it a mixture of both? I suspect the answer lies closer to the last one, it does both. Do those units end up Touring the Inns, like people who go barhopping?

I never really thought much about Mercs before. This little exercise has peaked my interest in those little details, even though IMHO I will never rely on Mercs solely again. I like nice full units, not to mention this must be the first game that I've played as the English that I haven't been able to tinker with Tancred de Normandie. I believe I might be going through withdrawl.

[macsen rufus]

I'm not sure where the mercs "come from" in the normal run of things. Sure, disbanded units show up in the inns, but the AI doesn't disband units. The "Crusade fragments" is a new discovery though I hadn't realised before that crusade deserters would enter the merc pool, I thought they just vanished into the hills until now.

The lack of merging does make it more difficult, as I mentioned earlier, I liked that ability when it was still available in "vanilla vanilla" MTW. So Crusades and largely merc armies give you bit of a double whammy unfortunately. The Crusade Hoover (TM) gathers a percentage from each province it passes through. Which means you get a fragmented unit in the Crusade and a fragmented unit left behind, neither of which can be remerged to make up numbers.

As for the barhopping - yes they do, I often see a unit appear in one province, then if it's not hired, the next year the inn may be empty and the unit has moved closer to the front line, maybe thinking the wages are better there

If you disband regular units, they're likely to reappear as mercs. I think it's a nice touch, actually.

Agreed, although my usual thought is along the lines: "Oh I remember you, you're the corrupt, two-toed sloth who prefers boys to girls, and runs away before realising the enemy has already surrendered, and now you think I'm going to take you back at double wages???"

[Prussian1]

Agreed, although my usual thought is along the lines: "Oh I remember you, you're the corrupt, two-toed sloth who prefers boys to girls, and runs away before realising the enemy has already surrendered, and now you think I'm going to take you back at double wages???"

I can't imagine why I a guy who just got clipped decides to hang out looking for work IN THE SAME PROVINCE!!

Unless the Chamberlain somehow manages to convince you that mercenaries come out of Current Expenses and not the Capital Budget, what's the odds of hiring them back?

[Sensei Warrior]

I've noticed something else kind of tricky. I haven't pinned what happened exactly, but will report on it just in case.

Well, when we last left I was at war with Spain (a problem), France (a nuisance), and a Crusade staged to take Palestine. Mercs had been trickling in a little but for the most part stopped. I took Palestine, and a little later Antioch. I must of overstretched my resources because Spain attacked Aquitaine with 4 stacks.

I was outnumbered 3 to 1, so a fighting retreat was in order. I lost Aquitaine, Anjou, Brittany, and Normandy, and no new Mercs appeared to replenish my losses. Weird, usually with this much fighting every Merc in the known world flocks to my doorstep. Several years later Il de France falls, my last army is squatting in Flanders, and I'm thinking I'm gonna have to report that I was wiped off the map.

As a last ditch effort I have 5 stacks of troops 3 in Palestine (under a 5* general with Skilled Defender, making him 6* while defending), and I have 2 stacks in Antioch. I abandon Palestine (I already got the GA points for it and there really is no point in staying, especially since I'm getting no new Mercs), and move the troops to Flanders to bolster the rag-tag defense I have there.

As I am reviewing what troops I have left in Flanders, I notice alot of units with 1-10 men in it. I disband them, they won't do much good in a fight, and as usual, I see them available in the Inn for hire. I end turn and pray Spain does not attack. They don't, and the next year the same troops I disbanded are available nothing new. I take care of buisness and end turn.

The next year new full units of troops are available at the Inn, alot of them. Well, I suck them up and go through my roster and see units with 10-20 units in it. I disband them.

The same thing happens more new full units of troops appear. Then I disband any 1/2 full troops, than any troops that have any missing at all. The same thing happens. Now, the part of this that makes it unfortunate is I am not keeping track of who I disbanded or how many. I am not sure if the Inn is replenishing the partial units I disbanded, or merging them together, but it happened to many times to be coincidental.

Anyways, I have gained all the land I've lost using this tactic. Money is pouring in from Antioch, and the other Provences. I have a decent lead in GA points, and I am thinking I have reached a critical mass of sorts, where it will be impossible to not stay in the top dog slot.

The only Faction that may be problematic is the Turkish. They have claimed all of the Byz's lands, some of Egypts, all of the rebel Provences of Eastern Europe, and lokk like they are about to wipe the Novrogod and Hungarians off the map. They are huge, but I forsee the Mongols giving them a run for there money soon. We shall see, I am off to play a few more years to see what happens.

EDIT I've played to 1250. I'm in the same spot I'm in before. It seems like there is some cap to how many Mercenaries you can have in play. It is approximately 5 stacks. I no longer have Mercs available unless unit groups get disbanded or die in battle. Tonight I plan on burn and raze back to Flanders, and regrouping, resetting my Merc armies and letting everyone know just how many units I think you can have in play. I'm sure it'll be approximate, but unless macsen rufus can shed some light on this then I do think I can progress any farther in the game.

FINAL EDIT Well I've counted, condensed, and recounted my Merc troops at a point where I am getting no more new troops. At the initial count I had 100 Merc units. I disbanded all partial units, cycled though 5 years, hiring as many full units as I could. At the end of the 5th year, I recounted the Merc units. I had 87. I am guessing the comp won't give, make, or allow the equivalent of 100 full units or so out into the game. That's an awful lot of units, but not enough in my opinion to win the game solely on the use of Merc troops.

[Bregil the Bowman]

I can't imagine why I a guy who just got clipped decides to hang out looking for work IN THE SAME PROVINCE!!

Unless the Chamberlain somehow manages to convince you that mercenaries come out of Current Expenses and not the Capital Budget, what's the odds of hiring them back?

Where I work (UK Civil Service) they are forever paying people off and bringing them back at twice the price as consultants.

I'll have to try that thing of disbanding mercenaries to merge them, though, sounds a good wheeze...

[macsen rufus]

unless macsen rufus can shed some light on this then I do think I can progress any farther in the game

'Fraid not - I've never hired THAT many mercs before, so you're the trailblazer on this one. My Turks have been languishing since the weekend, but I expect I'll get a chance to stir them up a bit again on Sunday

Hmm, even leaving nothing but peasant garrisons behind you, it will be a struggle conquering everything with just five stacks of serviceable troops. Definitely would need to fall back on the "fort-only" types and bribees to keep up the numbers. What about a strict adherence to GA goals? Would that still be possible, you reckon?

[Sensei Warrior]

I believe the game can be won in GA mode if you're careful. In the end I counted up 100 units of Mercs with about 20% being partial units that just never got resupplied. Thats 6 full stacks some some in reserve. It can be done, but again you'd have to be very careful. I honestly believe you would need to bolster your Mercs with bribed units or something to get through the rough patches.

I know 6 stacks doesn't sound bad but believe me it is. For starters they dont end up being like player made stacks. I mean I had a good deal more artillery units then I ever used before. Then there was the fact that I continued to be melee unit deprived, most of the Merc units were some type of cavalry unit, spear unit, or missile unit (these units also had a larger number of mounted representation). In my game I had to bolster the lack of melee units with Clansmen. I tried to be frugal, but it was hard. Other than the Druzhinia Cavalry, and the odd Arab Infantry , I got virtually no melee units.

I am not going to say I got crap units, because I didnt. I got a good number of good units like Italian Infantry. The odd mix did however make the battles interesting. Leave us not say with all the spear and missile units enemy Cav tended to not be a problem. A spear charge however made the battle last forever. With no counter unit (melee) you ended up watching your to Spear units slug it out forever. Enemy Infantry was touch and go. With lots of Cav it tended to be less of a problem than Spears, but if the Infantry was protected by Spears during their charge it was hard to counter them before they plowed into your Spear line.

Be prepared to use some unorthodox methods to win battles. I remember one where my entire missile line was mounted. I had Mounted XBows, HAs, and a Turcoman Horse. It was interesting to see my missiles so mobile, and definately helpful to draw enemy infantry units away from the Spear line. Some of my best, and worse battles I have experienced was during this campaign.

Since my last post I stopped playing the Campaign. I put it on hold mostly because it became an end year click fest. I had a slight deficit in the GA points (I did not secure all of my Crusading objectives). HRE and the Turks were leading. The Turks had an unfortunate run in with the Mongols (who by the way have spread as far west as HRE) so they were out of the picture. I figured some Italian Pressure and a very well timed raid or two by me would put an end to HRE. I didnt think I would lose, but it would take an incredibly long time to win.

I found out what I wanted to about Mercs, and passed it along, but the Builder in me yearns for that well honed unit of Billmen with Gold Armor and Gold Weapons with a valor of 9 and a morale of 8. I cant help it, its one of the main reasons why I like MTW so much.

[macsen rufus]

the Builder in me yearns for that well honed unit of Billmen with Gold Armor and Gold Weapons with a valor of 9 and a morale of 8

Ah, yes, the Holy Grail of the English campaign

Alas, I didn't get back to my mercs this weekend, I had to dismantle half my kitchen to get to a leaking drain

Good point about the unorthodox tactics, though, and good practice for those occasions when the AI catches you out with an unbalanced army. Personally I quite like having mounted missiles, especially when they're also reasonably melee-capable. I was wondering why your dilemma didn't seem to be much of a problem to me, then realised why: I've been playing games from the age of the phalanx, where (when?) "balanced" means having a lot of spears, a few horses/chariots on the wings and a handful of peasants to throw stuff ineffectually at the lumbering enemy line. Effective in its day, but not something the mediaeval equivalents excelled at

Interesting to see the Horde doing so well, though, I think I've only had one campaign where they've got much beyond Kiev before collapsing.

[Sensei Warrior]

I put this campaign on the back burner. Since the Mongols did so well, I was thinking of getting back to it and revving up troop building facilities and having a proper go at it.

[Quote:macsen rufus]Good point about the unorthodox tactics, though, and good practice for those occasions when the AI catches you out with an unbalanced army. Personally I quite like having mounted missiles, especially when they're also reasonably melee-capable. I was wondering why your dilemma didn't seem to be much of a problem to me, then realised why: I've been playing games from the age of the phalanx, where (when?) "balanced" means having a lot of spears, a few horses/chariots on the wings and a handful of peasants to throw stuff ineffectually at the lumbering enemy line. Effective in its day, but not something the mediaeval equivalents excelled at [/end quote]

True, I needed the practice. That works alot the same way in the Viking Campaign. I started a Welsh Campaign and have my CWs cutting their way through wave upon wave of Spearmen, Armored Spearmen, Fyrdmen, and every other Spear unit the bad guys are throwing at me.

[gaijinalways]

Interesting read guys. I often like to use mercs, but never thought of using so many ! The merc units do come in handy when you can't transfer units over quickly or don't have the ability to build the units yourself. that and scorched earth policies always make my troops happy as the pillaged buildings bring in the coins!