Romans and Swords

**dbarger58** · 09-07-2007, 03:36

From what i understand sword and more expensive, harded to master, and have a short range that spears and especialy short swords favored by the romans would have been a disadvantage agiasnt calvary, so what cause the romans to so wholeheartedly adopt swords

**mcantu** · 09-07-2007, 04:16

Pila can be, and were, used as spears

The order to repel cavalry by Roman army officers brought about a defensive formation, in which the front rank formed a tight wall of shields with their pila protruding to form a line of spearheads ahead of the wall. Undoubtedly it would be very hard to bring a horse to break into that formation. The most likely occurrence would be that it would come to a halt of its own will ahead of the spearheads. It was at that moment that horse and rider would be at their most vulnerable against the ranks behind the first line of infantry which would then hurl their spears at them. Given the short distance and the training legionaries received, it is likely such halted cavalry, frantically trying to turn their horses around to retreat, whilst colliding with horses following in the charge, would prove very easy targets.
If one further considers the likely possibility of archers being present, as is the case on the photo above, the effect of this formation could indeed be devastating.

http://www.roman-empire.net/army/tactics.html

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 09-07-2007, 12:04

Pila can be used but in reality the Legions never stopped using the spear. By the time the Roman citizen soldiers were all using swords they also had large numbers of spear-armed auxillaries.

**blank** · 09-07-2007, 14:07

Originally Posted by dbarger58

From what i understand sword and more expensive, harded to master, and have a short range that spears and especialy short swords favored by the romans would have been a disadvantage agiasnt calvary, so what cause the romans to so wholeheartedly adopt swords

Roman tactic was to get very close to the enemy in tight formation, where there wasn't much room for spears or even longswords

**Bootsiuv** · 09-07-2007, 14:13

Plus, the Hispanicus Gladius (or whatever it's called) just looked cool. A Roman has his appearance to think about, after all... :P

**bovi** · 09-07-2007, 16:45

Since the pilum was designed to bend on impact, I'd guess it wasn't very good in prolonged fighting, but it would scare a horse I'm sure. Hitting a shield would probably render it nearly useless?

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 09-07-2007, 20:08

Originally Posted by bovi

Since the pilum was designed to bend on impact, I'd guess it wasn't very good in prolonged fighting, but it would scare a horse I'm sure. Hitting a shield would probably render it nearly useless?

The pila wasn't actually designed to bend on impact, Hispanic and Britainnic ones don't. With that said it's not great as a thrusting weapon, the principle is the same as the later infantry square of the Napolionic wars. Horses don't charge a walls of steal for the same reason men don't. As a thrusting weapon though the narrow iron shank would probably vibrate on impact, going through anything other than flesh in hand-hand combat would be difficult at best.

**russia almighty** · 09-07-2007, 22:12

pila phalanx!

**bovi** · 09-08-2007, 16:07

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

The pila wasn't actually designed to bend on impact, Hispanic and Britainnic ones don't.

Shame on me for believing Wikipedia, vanilla RTW, and... EB's Hastati/Principe/Triarii description

? Cohors Imperatoria's description says it can be used as a normal spear though, even though it's not designed for it. As you say.

Should we change the description for the roman units then?