How to make money!

[PershsNhpios]

I'm having alot of trouble in the beginning of my campaigns.
In the previous mods I would cheat for money eventually, however I am determined to play without cheating in this mod.

Yet so far I have lost a Getai, Casse (Which I am writing about), and Sweboz campaign within 10 years.
The reason for this is although I can keep my head above debt, and gain two settlements very fast, the expedition, costs, population decrease and lack of money to assert new governments means that it take over 3 years until I'm capable of launching a half-cast assault on a new settlement.

In the latest campaign, which I have just given away before writing this, as the Sweboz I took the east and south-eastern territories within 3 turns.
I kept myself out of debt by disbanding all unneccessary units.
I ordered roads to be built in the capital.
I then had to wait, and put taxes on Very High in each settlement after I had taken them, for 4 turns before I had enough money to establish one section 2 government in the east.
The capital had no garrison, only the king.
The east had 2 companies of spearmen, one company of archers and a family member.
The south east had one family member and two companies of spearmen.
All units were severely depleted.

By the time I had developed governments and roads in both new settlements I was far overdue for expansion.
So I levied two new companies in the capital, because the new governments had only 400 people each, this put me into deficit.
But I planned to take the settlement north of the Cheruscii before my 3160 mnai would be spent.
However the garrison of the enemy was large (Playing on C Hard, B Medium), so I ordered one company of spearman from each new government to be brought out to meet the levies, and sent a newly come-of-age general to go with them.

It was here I thought I finally was getting somewhere, and as I put the village undersiege, from the east two large Eleutheroi armies came and besieged the southern town.
I lost the battle to the north due to attempting to reinforce the south.

And I abandoned those damned, bankrupted Rhine-dwellers.

What I am asking is for financial advice, how do you all keep yourselves afloat in the sea of great debts?

[bovi]

Ports and mines are important sources of income. But if you want a "softer" introduction to EB, you should try Rome or Carthage, they're a lot easier.

[Sarkiss]

Ports and mines are important sources of income. But if you want a "softer" introduction to EB, you should try Rome or Carthage, they're a lot easier.

definately. forget barbarians and easterners, thay are for player that are more or less used to EB and can get very though at the beginning. Epiros, KH is an easy option too btw.

[Arzeal]

Hi! I'm new to EB too ::)
I played a Lustonia as a start, suprisingly look at my only starting town and my starting big and elite army w. their upkeeps. I ran into debt problems but I have less hostile factions expect 2 weak and nearly non-garrioned Cartharge towns. I conquered until the army itself depleted and gain good income over times - by the time my army is deplepted, I got 7 or 8 towns ^^

[PershsNhpios]

I am currently retrying the Casse.
I thought not having to manage a large empire from the beginning would be the way to start off.

I am playing on Medium campaign difficulty.. I am on my 6th turn, and those northern tribes are sitting right on the border...

Thank you for the advice, I was going to play Lusotania at first, however I got sidetracked with the western tribes.
If I fail in the north I will move south!

I was wondering if some might help by writing here their strategies in general for making money, their priorities and how they deal with the great threat of the Independents?

[bovi]

Casse are the ones with the most threat from the independents ;).

[Bootsiuv]

definately. forget barbarians and easterners, thay are for player that are more or less used to EB and can get very though at the beginning. Epiros, KH is an easy option too btw.

I've been playing EB every waking minute (that I wasn't working or being a dad, which, granted, isn't more than 2 hours a day) for months, and Baktria still gives me a hell of a time. I fear my aar may be the shortest in EB history.

That's why I love this mod....no matter how much you play, it never really gets easy (unless you play on easy/easy of course).

[Ice]

Ports and mines are important sources of income. But if you want a "softer" introduction to EB, you should try Rome or Carthage, they're a lot easier.

Yes, I agree.

You are playing 3 extremely hard factions to begin with. Try something like Rome, Carthage, or even say a Greek Faction. You will have a much easier time making money via the lucrative sea routes.

As Casse though, you won't to pretty much disband every unit you have, and build your economy. Stay at peace with the independent kingdoms, they are a good source of trade. Build roads, trade buildings, etc. When you can support a decent army and are ready, go on the offensive.

EB is a difficult game to learn at first. It is very unforgiving and you have to know what you are doing, or you will go bankrupt very fast. Just give it some trial and error.

[PershsNhpios]

Ha ha ha,
I was following that very strategy as the Casse, when two full stack Independents besieged me!

[bovi]

If you want to play a Casse game successfully, you should use your starting troops, either take the SW settlement, or possibly better search out one of the freemen stacks before they get the chance to merge. Attack it even if you have inferior troops, and withdraw as soon as you run out of javelins or you can no longer stay out of melee. Your faction leader may be a good asset if used well, but be careful with him, he's not suited for melee. If you can get a unit to rout, he can massacre that one while your army retreats. Attack incessantly, and in the end you will be able to beat that stack. Hopefully the other stack will decide to leave you alone so you can rebuild . Any losses are okay, the men are better spent than disbanded .

[skuzzy]

I just started a campaign using Lustotannion (sp?) and accumulated 3 settlements with homeland as early as possible and also killed off Hasdrubal (effectively breaking the alliance so Carthage can't merc rape me) and then began to disband (namely that really expensive cavalry). With no threat other than rebels at the time and no troops to support I went from 30k in debt to + and built a mine in every settlement possible. Rome is just approaching me now but it's about 250BC (not on my computer so not positive as to the date). But even debt ridden it is possible to come out of it with no immediate threats. That is why Pontus etc are so difficult because massive debt and no matter what you have to worry about Arche Seleukids.

[Parkev]

I found the beginning of my Casse campaign on VH very easy, or I might just have been lucky. I disbanded all troops, built port, market and good a nice surplus of about 10k. After 3 years had elapsed I trained 1 x Iaosatae (slingers), 2 x Botroas (swords) and 1 x Gaeroas (spears) and took Barae and Magorix and knocked of all of Britain except Caledonia in under 10 years with only one non-siege altercation with the Rebels.

[Beefy187]

Im having a nice Casse campeign

Trick is to disband your starting armies and get those nasty celtic slingers. Wait till you get sieged by the skirmisher stack. Just keep sallying. Then start building your army. Celtic slingers are your friend! Use them to take out the enemy general (Most of them are on chariot. Shouldnt be too hard). Charge your chariot through the enemy. Finish them off with infantry

[Arzeal]

The Lustonian had 1 of interesting script (I wonder that others faction had it ) when I nearly completed conquered Ilberia pennisuala, I left 1 of the last settlement who had around 500 troops left (basically because I had exhauted my troops in conquering every others settlements in the pennisuala) after awhile I regained my debt and build a decent army, deciding to united the whole Ilberia to go against others factions w. my half full stacks, the script actived, and Boom! got a full stack of hostile army after me . I lost 3-4 battles w. heavy lost, but luckily my earning was like 5k per turn so I used all the money to hire mercs, gather 3/4 of my nobles and beat that hordes, close-death exp though - because most of my settlements got one 1 levy garrisoning - after that I'm on my way conquering teh Europe, half way to Rome now ^^

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

I find it extremely difficult to lose a Casse campaign, or even a Sweboz campaign. You just need to be willing to sit on yer arse for quite a while and just build income structures. I'm playing Sweboz and I'm rolling in cash. I have two full stack armies easily, both full of good units and I just have an ovular domain of the territories directly surrounding the 3 you capture in the first 5 turns.

The only thing I can tell you is don't overextend your economy. You just have to be patient and willing to sit for a while, build up money, buy an income building, save some more, etc. It looks like you save up a bunch of money, buy an army and go off until your up to your arse in debt and unable to pay it off without leaving you excruciatingly vulnerable. Sitting a while lets you build up an economy so you can afford that army and a defense for your new exploits.

Or, like mentioned earlier, just pick a faction that makes a shitload of money with little coersion, like the Carthaginians.

[PershsNhpios]

Not true at all sah.

I havent even managed to build up an army, I am retrying my Casse campaign, however it happened again!

You see I also have just sat on my barbarian ass and saved money and built the correct structures.
However as the Sweboz and the Casse, I have been constantly besieged by mostly full-stacks of Independents! ! !

My Getai campaign was very fun, however long it lasted, I did very well in defeating the Eleutheroi and I expanded very quickly over 4 settlements in a year. I kept out of debt, and then the kingdom of Epeiros migrated north! !

Anyway, as far as the Casse and other northern tribes go, it's sounds like it's partly a matter of luck as to whether your start is shaky or downright devastating!
I love it! I'll persevere then!

However if anyone wants to post their strategies briefly on the beginnings of finance and expansion for any and all factions, I would still very much like to hear them.

[Beefy187]

Casse: Celtic slingers is all you need at the beginning
Gauls: Escape to Briton to get away from Romans
Baktria: Get Kophen and blitz the small settlement on the north east.
Getai: Conquer settlement with your starting force. When Makedon gets weak go for Pella
Pontus: You could try runaway to Cremia. Or just get the settlement on the north east.
Carthys and Romans: Just beat everyone you meet
Epeiros: Blitz Pella
Makedon: Take out the lousy Koinons early. Then go after Epeirus
Koinon: Transport your army in Sparta and combine it with Athenian one
Lusotanna: Take out Carthage early. Makes your life much easier


Thats my strategy. Sorry its not that great

[sgsandor]

lemme say I love EB but i cheat like mad, cause who wouldnt if you could? I am about to start a new campaign no cheating what so ever with the Romani but i have to say cheating my way through a few campaigns def showed me how things work in Eb...what can I say I was learning and having fun!
Ouch those stones frigin' hurt guys stop that lol

[pezhetairoi]

well, i cheat all the time too, but only to manipulate political situations so no power gets annihilated until I do the annihilating. The stones are good, so use them. I usually like to burst out and blitz various towns while they are still weak and haven't started building stacks yet, and destroying them fast till I turn a profit, then settling down. I don't understand how we can sit tight and just build income-generating buildings when you can't even turn a profit that will allow you to keep building income-generating buildings. You wouldn't last past turn 1 that way unless you disbanded some troops.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I'll cheat all the time, but only for role playing and AI shepherding. I 'move_character' cheat to do things like move generals to their new post. It shouldn't take a single guy two years to move from one side of my empire to the other. I'll also 'character_reset' to move an army that is operating within a single province. Like when I have a city garrison fight rebels and they can't quite make it back to the city.

I also use tons of cheats to get the AI to do what I want. A command I use in nearly every campaign is:

create_unit Pella "hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi" 5 1 1 1

..when KH inevitably reduces Mak to just Pella and Mytilene.

[PershsNhpios]

Hmm, in my campaign Makedonia has taken most of Peloponnesus!
Anyway, I now understand how to build an empire, I knew I should of persevered with the barbarians and started on the hard factions.
I was right, by 250 BCE in my campaign I conquered Britannia and Ireland.

The trick was to use every dirty trick you could with your units, because initially you just don't have the resources to play heroically with great battle lines.





Did someone say something about manipulating the AI??????
How do I get force_diplomacy accept to work??
Oh please tell me the secrets of this, if I cannot make realistic deals with the AI, I will make house rules for myself (i.e. paying 10000 for each forced deal), and cheat to force them to be reasonable!

I would greatly appreciate anyone who can help me here, as I do not cheat otherwise, I think it is wrong in this mod as the team has put too much (voluntary!) effort into immersing every possible part of classical warfare into their project to cheat for success.
I did not even want to cheat on diplomacy at first, but some responses, while others are realistic, throw me out of the illusion.
Other things like the battle AI mistakes, I can forgive.

I beg ye, who art so handsome and wise in ye ways of dirty cheating, to assist me in my plight!

[The Celtic Viking]

For force diplomacy, install this neat little mod: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=80763. I use it all the time when the AI is too idiotic in the diplomacy section (such as when they will refuse trade rights only because they just refused to ally with me).

[PershsNhpios]

Thank you sah, my furry friend (Not at all an uncomfortable 'come-on', but a reference to your tagline.), I will download it immediately, and let my appreciation to all be known for advising me how to make money.
Do not be shy however, suggestions and experiences still welcome here.

[Sygrod]

Here are a couple of ways to solve the problem.

First thing to remember is that you have almost 300 years to do what you want, so don't be in a hurry.

What you can do is make a good enough defensive army and garrison in your towns. A good option is to keep just enough in the towns and a mobile force in a fort between the towns, so that it can respond to threats. This way you can have effectively twice the garrison for 2/3 of the cost. It also gives the enemy a fort to lay siege on. If the fort has a sizeable garrison, it can even break a siege and then reinforce a town on the same turn, after which you send the town garrison to the fort and some of the fort garrison to the town. Make sure that you always top up the troops.

Concentrate on income and happiness improvements. As your income grows, add better troops. Do not disband lesser troops, but combine depleted ones.

As your income grows, you should be able to field an expeditionary army. Take it to a neighbour. I am sure by the time you have the income to support it, a neighbouring faction has already attacked you and you have had to defend against endless waves of enemy armies.

When you have conquered your first town. Select the most favourable government type and make sure that your temple selection is a financially favourable one. Being close to your capital, it should be easy to control in the long run.

If you are getting tired of the endless enemy waves of armies breaking on your walls, get the money mod. It makes the enemies a bit more docile.

Troop composition will have to depend on the enemies you face, but make sure you have plenty of cheap missile units and a few really good melee units that can hold their ground competently. Missile units do very well behind walls of wood and stone as well as defensive melee troops. Hit your enemy at a distance as much as possible. If you manage to have missile supremacy, you can hit enemy units in flank and rear with impunity. Use cavalry mostly to finish off the enemy, since they are expensive to replace. Sometimes they can be used to draw an enemy unit from the enemy line, where it can come under missile fire from units and towers alike.

/Sygrod

[The Celtic Viking]

Thank you sah, my furry friend (Not at all an uncomfortable 'come-on', but a reference to your tagline.), I will download it immediately, and let my appreciation to all be known for advising me how to make money.
Do not be shy however, suggestions and experiences still welcome here.

Oh, I like it when strangers on the internet says they want to be my friend. Makes me feel more like home.

As for making money, there are some ways to do it. The best ways I believe are already stated, and in any case they are how I do it. That is, disband the army and develop your city/ies, or conquer until you're back on plus. Usually I go with the latter option, but as the Casse and Pahlava I've opted for the former with success (only lost as Pahlava because I got too greedy and refused to build an army even when I had the funds to do so ).

Then of course there's the choice of where to go, if you choose to conquer. As the Sweboz, north is always a good idea. Not only because Scandinavia is the best piece of land on earth, but also because there's the mines and trade and Skándzá-Swáiut. Awesome. It shouldn't be too hard either, and after a few settlements you'll be making enough money to stop and build up. Just remember to disband the cavalry - they're not worth the upkeep with your starting economy.

Another thing is that I always let the enemy sally rather than to assault. Not only will they have less men able to fight you, but you will fight in the open on your terms. Saves lives, which should mean that you're able to take more settlements, and become richer that way.

[PershsNhpios]

Very noble and respectable replies, which I have been waiting for.

I have adopted an apparently successful financial package, as I have stated previously here, however it is a grand thing to hear the attempts of others. This was however partly due to luck, as for once the Eleutheroi did begin their campaigns while I was beginning mine!
I have not yet tried fortune yet as an Eastern nation, I will follow my Casse campaign and it's reports hopefully to the finish.

Upon assaulting a settlement as the Casse, I made sure my besieging army was weaker than the garrison.
This made the garrison sally forth immediately.
I then created a horseshoe of slingers surrounding the front gate, as the enemy tired and were brutalized by shot as they sallied, and my men started to lose ammunition, I lessened the horseshoe and then ravaged all survivors with my chariots before they arrived back in the town.
Then it was simply a matter of breaking down the gates if there were any survivors.

Of course, I have not yet landed on the continent yet, so my Celtic tacts only stretch as far as guerilla warfare in the north has allowed.
Though I am very apprehensive of my upcoming campaign away from the homeland, which is why I wanted to develop a diplomatical frenzy before I arrived, which is why I asked about.. well, cheating!

I agree with your opinion of forts, Sygod, as they are not used nearly enough, considering they are now freely built!
However as the Casse, I doubt such a situation could be successful with the multitude of the enemy, I had to be very wily to win my battles in Britannia.
Your words I will keep in mind when I war on the continent however.

Finally, about this money mod.

I would be so grateful as to buy six rounds and cashew nuts/chips for everyone at the EB Royal, if someone could find a way of downloading it other than the links given on the author's thread.
I have tried all things asked of me, and have not succeeded at all.
As far as I know, this file is but 5kb, so it would not be very much to host.
(Ahem.. *hint*!).
I have heard it makes the AI far more realistic in growth, I do not know whether it is save-game compatible, but I would prefer it rather than the Casse playing bonk-a-horrifically-large-stack within the next 50 years.

[The Celtic Viking]

You mean the balanced mod? In that case, try this: http://hem.bredband.net/jonjir/balancedv11.rar

[PershsNhpios]

You are swiftly responsive, and have the helpful dedication of a true ape, Monkey! I wonder if they serve vanilla coke with bananas at the old EB, and if so, I am going to find you a nice, monkey sized stool and I will pay for you to drink and eat as long as you wish!
Thank you very much, you have granted me the most in my questions here!

[The Celtic Viking]

You are swiftly responsive, and have the helpful dedication of a true ape, Monkey! I wonder if they serve vanilla coke with bananas at the old EB, and if so, I am going to find you a nice, monkey sized stool and I will pay for you to drink and eat as long as you wish!
Thank you very much, you have granted me the most in my questions here!

Oh, so apes are more dedicated and helpful than monkeys, eh? They're better than us, is that what you're saying? Gah! Apes are lesser beings! Look at their tails! Look at their tails!! Can you see them? No! You can't see them, because they don't have any! Tailless apes are inferior to us long-tailed monkeys! We are the Master Race!


... oh, and what makes you think that I like vanilla coke? The bananas will be graciously accepted, though.