Fable, KOTOR2 or Jade Empire?

[Mount Suribachi]

So I'm thinking of picking up one of these games 2nd hand for my Xbox (its the only thing I get to play on these days). Tell me which I should get and why.

I played, finished and thoroughly enjoyed the original KOTOR, Xbox version FWIW.

[Ferret]

KOTOR2 was fun but my experienced was spoiled by having to restart so many times (techincal stuff) but even though I don't own fable it looks really good and I might buy it if I can't be bothered to wait for fable 2

[econ21]

KOTOR2 is an excellent game. Very much the same kind of beast as KOTOR1, sharing nearly all the same vices and virtues. It is darker and more replayable, but less polished and sadly the combat is too easy (best play it on hard, but even then you won't die). I found it very immersive and the sidequests were much less tedious than some of the Kotor1s. The voice acting and dialogue are excellent, as they were in kotor1. I found the plot very gripping, if sometimes hard to discern, and the three main enemies are each very well drawn. I'd rate it up there with the best of the CRPGs. It may be better on the PC though - fans are working to put some of the lost content back into the game.

Jade Empire is a very good game. I thought it would be an "RPG-lite" but it is pretty much the full Bioware CRPG experience. Strong plot, good dialogue, fun characters, decent combat system, interesting sidequests etc. It's a very solid title. It's a bit shorter and less compelling than Kotor2, imo. I can't imagine wanting to replay it any time soon, whereas Kotor2 is the kind of game I think I may replay every year or so. Presumably JE is a a good game to buy on the xbox (I can't imagine it being modded much).

No idea about Fable - it never sounded that interesting.

[frogbeastegg]

I'd go with Jade Empire. Econ21's verdict runs close to mine. The setting is refreshing, and really quite beautiful.

You may remember how much I loved KOTOR. My view on the sequel is pretty much the polar opposite of Econ21's. It should be noted that I played the xbox edition and he the PC one, so some of the issues I encountered may have been fixed. It needed several more months of development time, absolute bare minimum. It's possibly the single most buggy console game I've played; it had frame rate issues too. Some of the side quests were broken, either outright or through things I'd done as I played through. The plot was butchered towards the end; huge chunks ripped out and left on the cutting room floor and the cracks papered over with a flimsy little bandage. I cannot agree that the three villains were good; one was, the unexpected one. The other two were so limp and generic I can't recall what they were called, let alone more. The voice acting was as good as KOTOR's, in all other respects the sequel exhibited few of the first game's production values. If you must play KOTORII get the PC version - after the fan mod which restores all the missing content is released. Play the complete game. If you can't wait that long get the PC version, play, then hunt down and read all the cut material before continuing. Then mourn the mess for the game it could have been.

Fable is on my to-play pile. You can get the Lost Chapters edition (extra content, bug fixes etc) for under £10 these days. Someone I used to work with spent several weeks madly addicted to the game, and he talked about it for hours on end. Sounds like a nice action RPG: very pretty, decent options for building your character, thin on the plot and character development, short, easy.

[Kekvit Irae]

Other: Neverwinter Nights, more specifically the Shadows of Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark campaigns.

[Tratorix]

KOTOR 2: A good game by most standards, but in my opinion it falls flat compared to the original. It has numerous bugs and glitches and some of the characeters feel a bit tacked on. The ending is also rather disapointing, even more so than the first KOTOR. Still, it is good by most standards, so don't let my hatred of the game colour your opinion too much.

Fable: Didn't really grab my attention like some games do. It's a decently fun RPG, but don't expect anything amazing from it.

Jade Empire: One of my personal favourites. An interesting storyline, good characters and excellent voice acting. The battle system is a bit easy, and your party members are pretty much worthless in combat, but it's still fairly fun. This would definitely be my pick out of the three. It's a bit shorter than your average RPG (an average playthrough is about 25 hours) but it has some replayability.

[TinCow]

Jade Empire is easily my vote. Great combat, an interesting plot, and a very unique 'universe.' A memorable game, though perhaps with little replayability.

KOTO2 is generally good, but the ending is HORRIBLE. It pretty much ruined the whole game for me.

Fable is (IMO) a poor game all around. It promises much and delivers on next to nothing. Play it only if you're interesting in fighting things in uninteresting ways, and not a whole lot more.

[econ21]

I cannot agree that the three villains were good; one was, the unexpected one. The other two ... I can't recall what they were called...

Oh come on: one was called No-face (from Spirited Away); the other I call Shrek for his Scottish accent, although the name Atton gave him - "Sleeps with Vibroblades" - was pretty good.

[Bijo]

I voted KotOR2 simply because I find its gameplay and replayability greater than that of JE (which would be my other choice).

JE may be technically superior and more properly finetuned (if it regards the PC versions) but its gameplay is too repetitive.

JE's control scheme is more dynamic than KotOR's which is a good thing, but KotOR's is enjoyable.

I also find JE's story lacking, and the characters uninteresting.

The darkness and gloominess of KotOR2 are splendid.

[Xehh II]

I asked this somewhere else but I can't find it, so I'll ask it again, what is KOTOR?

[econ21]

I asked this somewhere else but I can't find it, so I'll ask it again, what is KOTOR?

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic:

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwa...result;title;1

Best CRPG series since Baldur's Gate, IMO.

[Xehh II]

If it's as good as Baldurs Gate, I have to get it!

[Kekvit Irae]

If it's as good as Baldurs Gate, I have to get it!

Most people think that it is. I, however, found it to be "good" but not "great".

Whereas the Baldur's Gate series (and Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights) allowed you to advance your character however you wanted with 9+ classes (including multiclassing and dual-classing), KotoR restricted you to just three base classes (soldier, smuggler, scout) and forced you to abandon that to become one of three Jedi classes (guardian, sentinel, consular) later on, a la d20 Prestige Class.
The plot is standard RPG fare. Bad guy threatens universe, meet ragtag party of stereotypical RPG class diversity, kill bad guy and save or enslave universe. What really shines is the character interaction with the NPCs (and listening to them banter amongst themselves). My personal favorite is Stereotypical Jedi Hero-wannabe using Force Push to trip up Stereotypical Rogue after Stereotypical Rogue asks if Stereotypical Jedi Hero-wannabe ever used the Force for pranks or jokes.

[Mount Suribachi]

If it's as good as Baldurs Gate, I have to get it!

Kevit Irae is being very harsh. KOTOR is certainly in the running for my favourite RPG ever. Those who have played the other Bioware games such as BG etc will instantly recognise the AD&D style mechanics of the game, but these are brilliantly hidden by an easy to pick up and understand interface - not a single mention of dice anywhere

The whole game is polished to a shiny gloss - slick, proffesional. The setting is utterly recognisable as Star Wars, the voice acting is brilliant, the characters were (for me) memorable, their interactions fascinating. The Jedi powers are cool - spinning a bad guy round in the air at the other end of the room whilst you throw your lightsaber into him before it comes back to you boomerang style - how cool is that? It also has the best twist I've ever come across in a computer game - someone here called it the Kaiser Soze moment - and it is brilliantly done, just like the Usual Suspects. I loved it. PST still has the best story and most originality for me, but KOTOR is the better "game" if that makes sense.

BTW, thanks for all the replies, I think I'll go for JE

[frogbeastegg]

Oh come on: one was called No-face (from Spirited Away); the other I call Shrek for his Scottish accent, although the name Atton gave him - "Sleeps with Vibroblades" - was pretty good.

Um ... :gets the grey cells working: There was the fragile one with the mask who was supposed to be all spooky and mystical. Then there was one who was the opposite: all tough and burly and about as mystical as a sock. Guess he would be "sleeps-with-vibroblades" ... though I cannot for the life of me remember what he looked like!



In the Baldur's Gate V KOTOR debate the winner is clearly Planescape: Torment.

[Lemur]

In the Baldur's Gate V KOTOR debate the winner is clearly Planescape: Torment.

In the Planescape v KOTOR v BG debate, the obvious choice is Fallout.

I never really got the hang of combat on the PC with Jade Empire, and that kinda prevented me from enjoying it. Is it worth another run? When I've got Kingdoms to play with?

[econ21]

I never really got the hang of combat on the PC with Jade Empire, and that kinda prevented me from enjoying it. Is it worth another run?

Definitely worth persevering with. It has a nice main story arc - the closest comparator is Kotor - and some interesting sidequests. I rather liked the romantic element.

There is a cheesy way to make the combat easy - there is a stunning attack (Stone Dragon?) that will disable your opponents long enough to whack them with a conventional attack. This attack will see you through even the ultimate boss.

The other trick I recall is jumping over the opponent - once you have done that you can typically smack them before they can react.

The best thing is just to pay attention to the early training lessons - they tell you all you need to know. Then practice fighting with the monks at the beginning.

IIRC, the pirates with their cannon were hard so early on but don't let them put you off; the game gets much easier afterwards (perhaps because the stunning attack is acquired later?). I rather enjoyed the combat after I got the hang of it - not much to it, but it felt rather Bruce Lee, all the whacking and smacking.

As has been said, your companions are worthless in a fight so I used them in support - or let them fight until they were nearly knocked out and then switch to support (the enemy does not touch them when they are in support).

[TinCow]

JE may be technically superior and more properly finetuned (if it regards the PC versions) but its gameplay is too repetitive.

I highly recommend replaying it while making tons of ridiculous kung-fu sounds every time you fight. I got a lot of pleasure out of it that way.

Am I the only one who enjoys talking smack to the computer? Whenever I get 'powerful' in games, I can't stop myself from making wisecracks while I slaughter everything around me.

[frogbeastegg]

I never really got the hang of combat on the PC with Jade Empire, and that kinda prevented me from enjoying it. Is it worth another run? When I've got Kingdoms to play with?

I know someone who had a similar issue. In the end he brought a console style controller, said it made life much easier. Perhaps see if you can borrow one from someone?

[Bijo]

I highly recommend replaying it while making tons of ridiculous kung-fu sounds every time you fight. I got a lot of pleasure out of it that way.

I don't think that would be effective for me, heheh

Am I the only one who enjoys talking smack to the computer? Whenever I get 'powerful' in games, I can't stop myself from making wisecracks while I slaughter everything around me.

In my case...

When I played a game in which I was to battle with all kinds of moves in it or when it had lots of first-person shooting (and difficulty) I sometimes started cursing at the game's opponents. Because it involves cursing it has been "ex'd".

"Jay Lenodamnit! Take that!"
"You think you can **** me up? Hm? Hm?!"
"Arrrrrgh!!! Arrrgh!!!"
"Arrrgh! *******, *******.... ARRRGH!!"
"Yeah, yeah, you like that don't you, you ****."
"You is gun' die." (with a Southern accent)
"****!"
"Ah ****!"
"Arrgh... just die already."
"Noooooo!"
"Arrrgh, almost!!!"

And when a friend or just somebody was near watching me play games like that...
"And what the **** YOU lookin' at?"

Of course, this kind of activity hardly occurs nowadays... still, sometimes a game agitates me and then it's possible the kinds of lament described above could apply

[Kralizec]

Of those three, I've only played Fable. Based on my experience, I recommend that you get KOTOR2 or Jade Empire.

[General_Sun]

Fable is a joke compared to KOTOR2 or JE. Both are really great bioware fares with excellent gameplay, touching storylines, fascinating sidequests and interesting character progression.

Fable is none of those, so generic and boring as to be mindnumbing.

[econ21]

....KOTOR2 or JE. Both are really great bioware fares with excellent gameplay, touching storylines, fascinating sidequests and interesting character progression.

I agree, although KOTOR2 is Obsidian's work (albeit using Bioware's engine). That probably explains why KOTOR2 is darker than most Bioware games, if admittedly also less polished. Some of the Obsidian team used to be part of Black Isle, Interplay's CRPG division that produced PST and Fallout.

[Mount Suribachi]

Holy Thread revival Batman!

Well, I finally got round to buying and playing.......KOTOR2. And I finished it last night.

Gotta agree with many of econs positives, and many of Froggys negatives. The game does have horrible (Xbox) framerate issues, it does appear to be missing a lot of filler, but I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it - up until I finished it last night.

What an appalling ending! I played it darkside all the way through and I'm "so, um, what happened here?"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Am I Dark Lord of the Universe? Is Malachor V blown up? Do I go off and join Revan (wherever he is). Is the mass shadow generator activated or not. And what is this Mass Shadow Generator? And what happened at Malachor V in the first place to make me sever connections with the force? And what was Kreias plan for the Wookie that she bound him to? And what was the secret plan with her and Mandalore? And what was the secret plan the Mandalorians were up to on the Ravager? And why was it impossible to go back into Vogga's warehouse, so I couldn't get the HK-47 part I was missing without going back about 15 hours of gameplay? (couldn't be bothered). And why didn't G0-TO blow up like he said he would if I didn't restore the republic? And why didn't handmaiden fight Kreia with me to get her revenge like the dialogue said?

And on and on and on....

I've managed to fill in some of the blanks with Wookiepedia, but talk about a letdown <_<

[Ramses II CP]

Yeah, Kotor2 was pretty much unfinished and released in a well developed beta state. There's a project to restore the PC version's missing content. It's been going on for, err, years, but I think it might finish someday.

http://www.team-gizka.org/forums.html

[TevashSzat]

Yeah, Kotor2 was pretty much unfinished and released in a well developed beta state. There's a project to restore the PC version's missing content. It's been going on for, err, years, but I think it might finish someday.

http://www.team-gizka.org/forums.html

Last I heard, it may be released around the Spring of this year.

I've been waiting forever to replay through KOTOR2 as a single saber wielding spellcaster (using the imbalanced wisdom armor balance of course), but have been resisting since I dont want to replay through the game again after the mod comes out....

[Lemur]

Last I heard, it may be released around the Spring of this year.

Browsing their site, I see they haven't filed a progress report since October '07. That's not too terribly promising.

[TevashSzat]

Browsing their site, I see they haven't filed a progress report since October '07. That's not too terribly promising.

Well they haven't updated their website in ages.

However, if you go through their forums, the mod is apparently in its last stage of beta testing. When the bugs that are left are fixed and if no new ones pop up, they will release the mod to the public.

Its about time though; there have been quite a few threads on their forums with people complaining about the mod's incredibly long development time. KOTOR2 has been out for what like 4 years now?