Pahlava Expansion Question

[Thaatu]

You should expand a bit slower and give some time for newly conquered settlements to blend in with your culture. The best way to do this is by building your own palace, which requires that the settlement must grow in size. That seems to bite out quite a piece from cultural penalty. After you have pacified a settlement, then it's time to start looking for the next target. It's much cheaper to have only one flashpoint in your empire rather than several ones.

Anyway, Bootsiuv is right, the whole Pahlavi governmental system will be turned upside down once the next version arrives. There's a July preview somewhere which tells the story in a more detailed manner.

[george585]

I agree with you on that. the problem was that I needed to destroy Baktria and Saka soon to get rid of them... but then Grey death kept coming and coming... so I figured I better start acting. I guess I was a bit too fast.
Hmm - didn't know about a palace - that's news! But then there's distance to capitol. And unrest! This is strange - it seems to originate from nowhere quite often!

[Thaatu]

The thing with RTW, at least in VH difficulty, is that there's always someone coming at you, and if you wipe him out, your new neighbour will be the next in line. In two Pahlavi campaigns I waited for about 80 turns before I took my first settlement. Granted it was a bit hard in the first one, as the Pahlavi capital that supposedly had mines gave no mining income... My income for the first 20 turns or so was below 200 mnai, with no troops other than my family members. Couldn't adopt any more FM's or I my budget would have frozen. But as my two settlements slowly grew in size, my budget balanced. Much easier the second time when the Nisa mine bug was fixed.

About unrest, the best way to battle that is with law bonuses. Construct buildings that give them, and also use governers who are at least loyal and preferably sharp. That combination might give out law related traits. If you're still keeping Nisa as your capital, change it. Parthian empire had quite a few capitals in its existance.

[LordCurlyton]

Well if you fix the Nisa mining bonus problem the economy problems of the Pahlava disappear. I've been playing them for a while and the only reason I disn't have a massive;y strong economy for a long while was the fact that a lot of what you originally will take just isn't as rich/abundant as what you take later. Once you've finally made your way into the Baktrian hinterlands and the Med side of the AS your economy really starts to jump with joy. Start progressing into Asia Minor and you'll be swimming in mnai. And learn to love their basic units. I waited a long time before I built my first real armored HA's and Catas. Also, build up regional MICS to the first couple levels as most places will give you some sort of cheap, big infantry unit. And almost everywhere will yield Pantodopai Phalangitai, which is better than any factional infantry you can get. I lurves my pikes and HAs.

[george585]

Well if you fix the Nisa mining bonus problem the economy problems of the Pahlava disappear. I've been playing them for a while and the only reason I disn't have a massive;y strong economy for a long while was the fact that a lot of what you originally will take just isn't as rich/abundant as what you take later. Once you've finally made your way into the Baktrian hinterlands and the Med side of the AS your economy really starts to jump with joy. Start progressing into Asia Minor and you'll be swimming in mnai. And learn to love their basic units. I waited a long time before I built my first real armored HA's and Catas. Also, build up regional MICS to the first couple levels as most places will give you some sort of cheap, big infantry unit. And almost everywhere will yield Pantodopai Phalangitai, which is better than any factional infantry you can get. I lurves my pikes and HAs.

Interesting suggestion. I control all of Baktria and Saka... and when I took their cities I did not see any significant jump in mnai. I did get probably around 40000-50000 by takeing their cities, but this sum pretty much dissapeared as I built my gov-ts there in place of theirs... and I had to get some persian archers garrisoned in cities too, so that pretty much ate all money - initial bonus and the amount they generate every turn.

As for Asia Minor.... I haven't got there yet... I am stuck at Edessa... But it's hard to maintain order in Seleukeia and Persepolis.... I imagine Asia Minor would be hell then... distance to capitol and culture penalties would be huge.

As for unit recruitement .... I guess I misunderstand something.... But I really cannot recruit any units starting west, south and east of Nisa. The two cities on the very east don;t have anyone to recruit either. Much of Seleucid Empire does not offer anyone to recruit either...

Can you please perhaps give an example of a precise recruitment building I should build in say Seleukeia or Persepolis to be able to recruit at least some basic archers?

Thanks.

[LordCurlyton]

Interesting suggestion. I control all of Baktria and Saka... and when I took their cities I did not see any significant jump in mnai. I did get probably around 40000-50000 by takeing their cities, but this sum pretty much dissapeared as I built my gov-ts there in place of theirs... and I had to get some persian archers garrisoned in cities too, so that pretty much ate all money - initial bonus and the amount they generate every turn.

As for Asia Minor.... I haven't got there yet... I am stuck at Edessa... But it's hard to maintain order in Seleukeia and Persepolis.... I imagine Asia Minor would be hell then... distance to capitol and culture penalties would be huge.

As for unit recruitement .... I guess I misunderstand something.... But I really cannot recruit any units starting west, south and east of Nisa. The two cities on the very east don;t have anyone to recruit either. Much of Seleucid Empire does not offer anyone to recruit either...

Can you please perhaps give an example of a precise recruitment building I should build in say Seleukeia or Persepolis to be able to recruit at least some basic archers?

Thanks.

Really? Build regional MIC 2 ANYWHERE in Seleukid lands and you will get Pantodopai and Pantodopai Phalangitai. Head to Syria and Mesopotamia and you can get up to Theurophoroi in regional MIC 4 (needs Type III/IV Gov).
In Seleukia you can get Shipri Tukul in a Faction MIC 4 (Type II Gov) as a pretty decent heavy infantry, though they are only recruited their as far as I can tell. You get a nice selection of basic greek units from the regional MIC you can build there, including the phalangitai. However, building Factional MIC 1 in almost any of my provinces (India and steppes excepted) yields the Eastern Slingers, Artish Pada, and Thanvare Paydag, which is your basic archer unit. Factional MIC 2 will give the basic Pahlava Shivatir in a VAST area, though the Med coast, India, and some of the Saka lands. Basically, in my game, the HA's peter out once you start going into Asia Minor and other areas that typically were extremely Greek influenced (or so I would guess by all those free poleis that would revolt to KH, plus the beginning presence of AS and Ptolies).
In Persepolis you get the full arsenal of Pahlava might from the Factional MICS; I know I can crank out Catas there. Plus the L2 Regional MIC that you get with a Type I gov also yields the phalangites.
In the far east province (by which I assume you mean India), you build Regional MICs. At L4 you have access to Indian Spearmen, Indo-Hellenic Peltasts, and Armored Elephants. A Factional L2 MIC yields the Indian Longbowmen. If you mean the territory(-ies) just north of India I think those may be recruitment holes as I have had no luck yet.
In the steppe you can generally get good access to HA's of various stripes by making sure you build the Migration before installing a government, and then building Nomadism. That way you can get all those spiffy armored HAs, of which the Daha seem to be the best.
As far as distance penalties go, they are capped (at 80% I believe) so once you get to 80% it won't get worse. And culture is 50% max. As long as you expand slowly and bring good influence/trait generals to the fore, you should have no problem. Though, in the spirit of the mobility of the Pahlav "capital", you might want to just switch your capital to Seleukia once you take it. Your eastern provinces will be very easy to keep happy, even with the new distance penalty, and all those pesky Meso and Asia Minor territories suddenly get MUCH happier with the removal of a large chunk of the distance penalty. Freed up roughly 2-3 stacks of garrison troops when I finally did the switch; saved me a nice chunk of income right there.
Depending on how quickly you captured Baktrian and Saka lands will determine how well-built their mines are. Besides, checking the Trade tab shows the mine income clearly, and it does make a big difference. If you captured them quickly, build up, and make sure you build the second mine level. That increases mine income by a factor of 2.5 so it is well worth it.

[george585]

Really? Build regional MIC 2 ANYWHERE in Seleukid lands and you will get Pantodopai and Pantodopai Phalangitai. Head to Syria and Mesopotamia and you can get up to Theurophoroi in regional MIC 4 (needs Type III/IV Gov).

The problem is I dont have the money and quite frequently the time to build all those barracks. I am forced to recruit very few mercenaries (I cannot afford more) to compensate for complete lack of infantry on the west (the backbone of my army are horse archers and cataphract bodyguards).

In Seleukia you can get Shipri Tukul in a Faction MIC 4 (Type II Gov) as a pretty decent heavy infantry, though they are only recruited their as far as I can tell. You get a nice selection of basic greek units from the regional MIC you can build there, including the phalangitai. However, building Factional MIC 1 in almost any of my provinces (India and steppes excepted) yields the Eastern Slingers, Artish Pada, and Thanvare Paydag, which is your basic archer unit.

I just need the money to build all that. For 35 cities I am gettimng only 25000 per turn which is enough to build only one very cheap building per turn... I am not even talking about recruitemnt and building barracks...

Factional MIC 2 will give the basic Pahlava Shivatir in a VAST area, though the Med coast, India, and some of the Saka lands. Basically, in my game, the HA's peter out once you start going into Asia Minor and other areas that typically were extremely Greek influenced (or so I would guess by all those free poleis that would revolt to KH, plus the beginning presence of AS and Ptolies).

LOL. I can only recruit mine in my original 2 starting cities, on one Baktrian city, and in one Saka/Steppe city on the very north :) But that's enough for me (I cannot afford to have many of them anyways)... It's just logistical nightmare to have lots of tiny armies made of one unit being moved from east to west...

In Persepolis you get the full arsenal of Pahlava might from the Factional MICS; I know I can crank out Catas there. Plus the L2 Regional MIC that you get with a Type I gov also yields the phalangites.
In the far east province (by which I assume you mean India), you build Regional MICs. At L4 you have access to Indian Spearmen, Indo-Hellenic Peltasts, and Armored Elephants. A Factional L2 MIC yields the Indian Longbowmen. If you mean the territory(-ies) just north of India I think those may be recruitment holes as I have had no luck yet.
In the steppe you can generally get good access to HA's of various stripes by making sure you build the Migration before installing a government, and then building Nomadism. That way you can get all those spiffy armored HAs, of which the Daha seem to be the best.

I guess I will have to find a way to make more money....
Hmm as for the northern steppee cities... I usually build regional pacification and then my gov-t type. Is this what you meant by Migration?

As far as distance penalties go, they are capped (at 80% I believe) so once you get to 80% it won't get worse. And culture is 50% max. As long as you expand slowly and bring good influence/trait generals to the fore, you should have no problem.

I don't have nearly as many generals, let alone I need some in my army and not as mere governors...

Though, in the spirit of the mobility of the Pahlav "capital", you might want to just switch your capital to Seleukia once you take it. Your eastern provinces will be very easy to keep happy, even with the new distance penalty, and all those pesky Meso and Asia Minor territories suddenly get MUCH happier with the removal of a large chunk of the distance penalty. Freed up roughly 2-3 stacks of garrison troops when I finally did the switch; saved me a nice chunk of income right there.

I have no idea how you managed to keep east provinces happy. I didn;'t even take 3 provinces in India, but even now Saka capital for example has 10 units garrisoned, small population, and with my capital at Nisa still they are at 75% happiness on low tax rate! Surely they and at least 10 cities in the east would rebel once I make sitch to Seleukeia. Even Perspolis would be damaging in that respect.

Depending on how quickly you captured Baktrian and Saka lands will determine how well-built their mines are. Besides, checking the Trade tab shows the mine income clearly, and it does make a big difference. If you captured them quickly, build up, and make sure you build the second mine level. That increases mine income by a factor of 2.5 so it is well worth it.

I captured quite quickly - because Baktria declared war on my pretty early, and I decided to take Baktria and Saka out while they were small.
I see. I guess I will need to do it very slowly....

Thank you for your suggestions though!

[george585]

The thing with RTW, at least in VH difficulty, is that there's always someone coming at you, and if you wipe him out, your new neighbour will be the next in line. In two Pahlavi campaigns I waited for about 80 turns before I took my first settlement. Granted it was a bit hard in the first one, as the Pahlavi capital that supposedly had mines gave no mining income... My income for the first 20 turns or so was below 200 mnai, with no troops other than my family members. Couldn't adopt any more FM's or I my budget would have frozen. But as my two settlements slowly grew in size, my budget balanced. Much easier the second time when the Nisa mine bug was fixed.

About unrest, the best way to battle that is with law bonuses. Construct buildings that give them, and also use governers who are at least loyal and preferably sharp. That combination might give out law related traits. If you're still keeping Nisa as your capital, change it. Parthian empire had quite a few capitals in its existance.

Thanks for suggestions. I guess you might consider me a beginner... but I always played on M/M. I just don;t like the idea being at war with everyone....and it's not too realistic either.

Wow... I too waited quite a bit before taking my first settlement but it wasn't that long. I guess the mines bug was fixed when I played it.

Hmm I assume when it says "10% public order bonuses due to law" and "10% public order bonus due to happiness" they are equal? Aren't they?

Changing capital.... yes, probably I will, but as of now Nisa is indeed the center of my empire. The easternmost town of mine is as far away from Nisa as is westernmost. So I don;t think I should change it now...

[kambiz]

I think george585 is right about the difference between western settlements and eastern settlements which are bigger than western ones ,Thus eastern (Especially Saka ,Saroumate ,Bakteria and offcourse Pahlava) have struggle with "Distance to capital"

Both distance from capital and cultural penalties are hardcoded in RTW.

Yes but there's still a solution. You can increase the amount of Public order each of related buildings can produce. For example ,each shrines can produce 10% public order instead of common 5% each ! (Or at least the first building can have higher amount of public order). Is it not possible to modify?

@Thaatu
Imho Blitzkrieg is the best strategy for Pahlava ("Ashkanian"). I did use this strategy with success in my Pahlava campaign (In EB 0.80)

[bovi]

Law affects corruption and chance of catching spies as well. Law > happiness.
Buildings' effects are easy to change. Search out the buildings in question in export_descr_buildings.txt.