Questions for EB team / fans

[EdwardL]

Well Kingdom's has come, and it's time for me to get back into modding. Previously, with RTW I was working on a total conversion mod for an American colonization period. I never went public with my work as I got stumped on my map development. Having worked on my central / northern American map for about a month, I scrapped the project due to an elusive crash source. The modding knowledge within the community, and the modding flexibility of the series has expanded since then and with such i've already got a working extension of the America's Campaign map which is 4 times the current size one. I come here rather than a mod development thread at the org as I seek feedback particularly from the EB community with it's established dev team and those that follow the mod that have exp with modding, and it only seemed natural as I follow EB as well. My questions are as follow:


Which is best for hosting a mod, Org or TWC? What are the differences if any, and would there be advantages / disadvantages to dual hosting on both sites?

What are the keys to expanding / recruiting a mod team?

After having brought EB so far, as you look back in retrospect, is there any general advice concerning preferred methods to developing a mod from it's infancy to adulthood.

Look forward to replys and / or PM's!

Thanks,
EdwardL

[bovi]

My suggestion, of a technical nature, is to use version control for collaborative development. There are several free ones like CVS and SubVersion. I wish we had done that a long time ago.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Some people are going to carry much of the load at certain times, and others at other times - don't get caught up with worrying about titles - and don't ignore members' advice. Compromise and listening (and then acting) to everyone on the team's opinion on matters is essential if you want the team to stick together. There is going to be some arguing about things, but the more people listen to each other and reach a middle ground the further the mod will go. Titles or positions in EB don't mean zilch if everyone else or at least a very clear majority isn't behind the decisions a director or FC makes, because people will get mad and leave or poison the well. We almost never have an internal poll where it is a very close decision and we just go with whatever got 51% of the vote - if it's that problematic it's better to look at it again where more people will agree. We have had probably the biggest team for three years and only two or three people have outright left after getting upset about something and told us. A few others have just faded away for sure after they didn't like something, and plenty of others have left because modding or RTW just lost their interest, but there have been zero splits and no time when more than one person left because of something.

[EdwardL]

Thanks for feedback, although it may be sometime before said mod even gets off the ground. Having an issue atm with the map

Having an issue with my map. I've expanded the canvas of the americas map for kingdoms north and east, and followed all the directions from the guide. The campaign itself will run, but once i get into battles it will CTD. The only files i've modified are the ones listed in this guide(Myrradal's(sp)), and the fog.tga. I deleted both the radar maps so the campaign radar map will adjust itself to the map. now the only problem i have is when i go into a battle on the campmap, custom battle, or scenario battle, the game will crash just after loading. from what i see it looks like the game ground texture is thrown off; some maps have ground with a big black hole under the troops start local, some look like the troops are starting in the sky or water.

The campmap works fine with the new map, and I havent edited any other files so either im seriously overlooking something, or the modding community might have a new roadblock ahead. Just waiting on feedback from modders now.

[Kull]

A "Total Conversion Mod" is just what it sounds like, except far, far worse than you can possibly imagine. Unless you have a fairly large group of people who are all just as interested as you, then it's going to be a 1 or 2 person team, and I'm here to tell you - it is IMPOSSIBLE to do a TCM without a very large team composed of folks with varied skill sets.

If you look around, RTW is littered with examples of failed mods that were the vision of just one person. Blue Lotus is probably the most amazing small team achievement in history, but it never got out of the buggy-alpha stage, and even the founder finally moved on to other things.

Probably the best thing you could do would be to try and develop a bolt-on to an existing mod (something like the first Cohorts Mod to EB), because that would get you familiar with all the controlling files and give you some sense of the magnitude of a major conversion. And then, if you are still interested, sit down and lay out a list of EVERYTHING you will have to change to make your vision a reality. If that doesn't make you quit, then begin to recruit a team who shares your vision and see if there's enough volunteers out there to do all that stuff you now know needs doing. I'm not trashing your work on the map, because that's a tough job all by itself, but there are 20 other "must-do" jobs that are just as hard, and others that are a LOT harder.

[EdwardL]

A "Total Conversion Mod" is just what it sounds like, except far, far worse than you can possibly imagine.

Actually it's going to start off as a build on vanilla. My mistake on the last attempt with the RTW engine was that of being aggressive and not doing research on mapping proceedures, and at the time the modding community was still somewhat in it's infancy. Now with Kingdoms and it's America's campaign, half the work is already done. If need be i'll just recycle models and textures with the vanilla skins for new factions till a skinner hops on board.

If you look around, RTW is littered with examples of failed mods that were the vision of just one person. Blue Lotus is probably the most amazing small team achievement in history, but it never got out of the buggy-alpha stage, and even the founder finally moved on to other things.

All too true. Many times in my experiences with the TW forums have i seen an "Announcing" thread with a dynamic title to a new potential mod, and followed it's progress only to see it doesnt leave the ground. Normally the initial pulse is vibrant and ideas and involvement with mod art, and suggestive structure is strong, but nothing tangible is produced. If you want something tangible take a look..




Clearly it's in it's infancy. The greater antilles are just placeholder blobs and the lesser antilles havent been introduced as blobs yet :) . North America clearly needs to be refined. All just landmass placeholders atm, and testing stability.

Some interesting info to know about Kingdoms;

There doesnt seem to be a landmass requirement to run the campmap now, as was the case with RTW.

You can rename cities without having mod, in the middle of a game by simply clicking on the settlement name in the settlement window and renaming it.

Factions can change icons in the middle of a campaign via script.

Also for anyone who may be working on a camp mod, you may have to delete the desc_geography_new.db and the desc_geography_new.txt files to get past the crash I was experiencing with the transition to battlemaps.

Im still curious on ya'll thoughts concerning which site to host on.

E.

[bovi]

I can't help but notice that a quarter of the map is only sea with no purpose (nothing to reach to the east). Why not cut the map a couple of tiles east of the easternmost land tile?

I have no thoughts about TWC/ORG hosting. I came to EB by TWC but never go there anymore after the latest rumble where everyone and his grandmother got banned.

[EdwardL]

I can't help but notice that a quarter of the map is only sea with no purpose (nothing to reach to the east). Why not cut the map a couple of tiles east of the easternmost land tile?

Well thats where Alantis comes in . J/k, i'm actually reserving that for when i've accurately spacced and positioned the Greater Antilles / northern coast bits of S. America, and once the NEastern boundries of N America have been established. Once that criteria is met, then i'll trim off the excess eastern Atlantic.