Copy Protection, etcetera

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Piracy is a real problem for many developers, some very talented companies had to close the books in recent years because of the high investments and development costs to produce good games. When a big part of the revenue is flowing away due to illegal copies and piracy, I can understand protection is required and desired by many developers.

Although it will always be a cat and mouse game. I wished it should not be a necessity in the future, but game protection is something we should better get used to as piracy will never be halted.

LZ

[hellenes]

Piracy is a real problem for many developers, some very talented companies had to close the books in recent years because of the high investments and development costs to produce good games. When a big part of the revenue is flowing away due to illegal copies and piracy, I can understand protection is required and desired by many developers.

Although it will always be a cat and mouse game. I wished it should not be a necessity in the future, but game protection is something we should better get used to as piracy will never be halted.

LZ

Now I see games without any crazy copy protection selling like crazy...(WarcraftIII comes to mind)...
Plus your post is contradictory why should the honest customer be troubled when it solves nothing?
As I said in my previous post: A 100% pirate proof game is a MP game...

[Juvenal]

When you buy a game that won't install without phoning home, you are effectively being cheated out of your purchase because you are in reality only renting the game for an unknown period (i.e. until the publisher withdraws the authentication service).

I still play games that are ten or more years old. What are the chances that current publishers' authentication servers are still going to be available ten years from now?

I had been so looking forward to BioShock - being a System Shock 1 & 2 fan of long standing. But now I find that I can't actually buy the game at all - I would only be allowed to "visit" it until the publisher gets fed up with me.

There must be a better way than this.

[ixidor]

Completly agreed. I don't like copy pretection, it only annoys the honest and dedicated buyers, that's all. After all, no matter the game you can always get it from net a couple of days later, so what's the point? In fact, all that protection will not only be useless to pirates as it can low the sells, because i believe that even honest people can say "for the hell with SecRoom!" and simply download it without pay and without all that annoyance from privacy and breaks on their computers.

[Whacker]

Hi LZ

Piracy is a real problem for many developers, some very talented companies had to close the books in recent years because of the high investments and development costs to produce good games. When a big part of the revenue is flowing away due to illegal copies and piracy, I can understand protection is required and desired by many developers.

I don't mean to be rude, but statements like these from the gaming industry are completely contrary to what I've read on realistic projections of numbers of pirated games. It's also my suspicion that sometimes when bad sales are blamed on piracy, it's actually on the fact that the game in question is miserable and really didn't sell well at all, hence finding a scapegoat. Further, these numbers assume that a pirated game means the individual did not buy the game after downloading it, in a sort of "try before you buy" routine. I know of some publishers who've closed down, but most of those were due to horrible mismanagement (Interplay, anyone?). As the old saying goes, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Although it will always be a cat and mouse game. I wished it should not be a necessity in the future, but game protection is something we should better get used to as piracy will never be halted.

That's true, but as anyone can see, even the worst copy protection mechanisms do absolutely nothing to stop the pirates. Bioshock has one of the worst variants of Securom installed, and it only took the pirates 2 days to fully crack it. The only one that I'm aware of that hasn't been cracked is the 'worst' type of Starforce which is implemented on the expansion for Lock-on Modern Air Combat, and it's apparently due to extreme lack of popularity, not for want of trying. Build a "better" armor, and the other side will build a better gun. The problem here is that the "better" armor (copy protection) is now at the point where it's becoming a problem for the average joe consumer (Starforce destroys hardware), and people are becoming more aware as technology know-how increases of what exactly is happening to their systems when they install this spyware and garbage.

I do hope that you and your company consider this when you release the upcoming game which I'm still anticipating. Doing something like Stardock or Moonpod where you don't have cd checks but simple key activation. Both companies had very successful, profitable games, and doing as such will go miles to improving your relationship with your to-be customer base. You'll always lose some to piracy, but as history indicates, there's no copy protection that'll stop it and the tools are freely available. Make a game that's worthwhile and maintain a good working relationship with us, and we'll sing your praises to heavens and spread the word to buy the game. Stand up and be an example to the big publishers that you don't need to treat your fans (customers) like criminals, it's been done before and you can do the same. And as always best of luck.

Off my soapbox now.

Cheers

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

I do hope that you and your company consider this when you release the upcoming game which I'm still anticipating.

My statement was made on a personal basis, that I understand why copy protection is incorperated. I did not state that I was for copy protection. In fact I voted a big no in the poll as it is not a solution, the music industry proofed it is no solution at all. I just claim that there will always be game publishers who will use it. The decision to include any kind of protection is largely the responsibility of a game publisher, as a game developer I would not promote it though.

Doing something like Stardock or Moonpod where you don't have cd checks but simple key activation. Both companies had very successful, profitable games, and doing as such will go miles to improving your relationship with your to-be customer base. You'll always lose some to piracy, but as history indicates, there's no copy protection that'll stop it and the tools are freely available. Make a game that's worthwhile and maintain a good working relationship with us, and we'll sing your praises to heavens and spread the word to buy the game. Stand up and be an example to the big publishers that you don't need to treat your fans (customers) like criminals, it's been done before and you can do the same. And as always best of luck.

Exactly, totally agree.


LZ

[kambiz]

As I said in my previous post: A 100% pirate proof game is a MP game...

Although I'm agree with you that Online MP is an obstacle for so called pirates ,But do you really think that making a cracked server is impossible???
search cracked server for BattleField Series ,Call of Duty series ,Enemy territory ,CS ,... and you'll see

However Still I think the best way is MP(even if it means 1-2 months delay for pirates...)

Regards

[Zenicetus]

Although I'm agree with you that Online MP is an obstacle for so called pirates ,But do you really think that making a cracked server is impossible???
search cracked server for BattleField Series ,Call of Duty series ,Enemy territory ,CS ,... and you'll see

It depends on how much of the game content is running on the server. If it's a largely client-based game with a server used only as a simple gateway for MP, then it's a lot easier to crack. A heavily server-based MMORPG game like WoW is much harder. The most I've seen done with WoW are occasional attempts at client-side cheats for advantage in the game, like bots for gold-farming. Those are quickly shut down, due to the game's frequent patch schedule. I don't think WoW has ever been cracked in the conventional sense of getting the game and continuing monthly access, without paying for it.

So yeah, that's the ideal anti-piracy model, but it doesn't work for all types of games.

[kambiz]

I don't like WoW (I'm not the fan of MMORPG ) but we also have WoW cracked server here

[Zenicetus]

I don't like WoW (I'm not the fan of MMORPG ) but we also have WoW cracked server here

Okay, let me rephrase what I said like this:

I doubt that WoW has been cracked in such a way that everyone is getting the same game experience -- regular class updates via patches, bugfix patches, seasonal events, new content, quests and dungeons etc. -- on the same timeline as everyone on the official, paid-for servers is getting it.

It would also be interesting to know (although this isn't the place for that info, just posing a hypothetical here) how well a cracked WoW server can handle 24/7 uptime, heavy traffic loads, and scalability. Not that Blizzard has always handled that well. The early days were rocky, but the last year or so it's been the most solid service of its type that I've ever seen.

[ixidor]

I think that's true actually. I had some friends of mine who were most of the times playing in cracked servers. True, they said most of the servers had some big bugs and all, and that the paid service was better, but they could play it and retain the essence of the game in cracked ones.

[kambiz]

@Zenicetus
As I said ,I don't play MMORPG (Thus don't play WoW) so I don't know how the server works. But I know those who like it play it there

[hellenes]

Although I'm agree with you that Online MP is an obstacle for so called pirates ,But do you really think that making a cracked server is impossible???
search cracked server for BattleField Series ,Call of Duty series ,Enemy territory ,CS ,... and you'll see

However Still I think the best way is MP(even if it means 1-2 months delay for pirates...)

Regards

I undestand what youre saying...you meant teh private servers that offer 10% of the experience of the official...with HUGE amounts of lag, underpopulated with donators that buy off the crooked and corrupt gms...
MP games are MUCH more pirate proof than the MOST copy protected SP game...

[Freedom Onanist]

When you buy a game that won't install without phoning home, you are effectively being cheated out of your purchase because you are in reality only renting the game for an unknown period (i.e. until the publisher withdraws the authentication service).

Absolutely. A royal pain and danger. An example would buying music on subscription, as customers of Virgin Music found out when they were told that their song collections would become unplayable once the store stops operating.

No copy protection should be there, however, I think a CD key will be. I find that particularly annoying as I am one of the most disorganised people I know. The moment I buy a game, disks, manuals and jewel cases all part company only to be found again separately!

[Daithi MacGuillaCathair]

wish they would print the cd key on the cd, their by never loosing it. all other forms of copy protection seem to be intrusive and more hastle for the honest customer.

[hoccalugee]

take copy-protection out of the budget. save the money, make the game better, earn more customers. customer loyalty is number one. give the developers/employees a raise too. maybe make some neato mod tools. yeah! use the extra budget to make great mod tools.

[Ossie The Great]

take copy-protection out of the budget. save the money, make the game better, earn more customers. customer loyalty is number one. give the developers/employees a raise too. maybe make some neato mod tools. yeah! use the extra budget to make great mod tools.

yes, i agree.

Many of the copy-right protections on cds are useless, so i would say there is no point bothering with the copy right protection.

either way thuogh i do not mind.

P.S It would be great though if they did release loads of tools

[Daithi MacGuillaCathair]

Damn , just installed a game which had a Securom , a messgae came up saying something like you have deamon tools your a naughty boy, and now my computer is royal buggered, i cant install anything. i didnt think securoms were supposed to do that ???????????

[Fallen Angel]

I'd perfer ome system where to register the game, you need the CD in the drive (if you bought the game in a store. This would keep employees from copying down registration keys from other Jewel Cases and handing them out to friends like party favors*.)

If you bought it off online direct distro then you should get a key via email/smailmail.



*I bought GalCivII twice from and both times my key (just written on the back of the jewel case) didn't work. takes the CD's out of the cases.... so ya, I'm paranoid about stealing half my purchased product.

[caravel]

Unfortunately those that care about copy protection and would boycott a game because of it are in the minority. Most people are entirely oblivious to it and this is what devlopers such as CA count on.

Personally I hate any kind of copy protection, even that which requires me to keep a CDROM in the drive. Also it is wrong to prevent legitimate licenced users from making a backup copy.

A license key based system with an authentication code that can be verified by an automated phone service would be the best option. Having to be online in order to get a game registered and working is also undesirable, especially for those without an internet connection.

[Vuk]

especially for those without an internet connection.

It can also be a pain in the bottom if you have a 56k. What I really hate is having to buy RTW 3 times.