Copy Protection, etcetera

[Bijo]

Will security measures be installed for Empire: Total War (such as Safedisc, SecuROM, CD keys, etc.)? If yes, what kind(s) of measures and how will these affect customers?

[Galapagos]

Well copy protection will only affect customers.They will not affect the ones who just take the game ilegally so i think there should not be copy protection..

[Mikeus Caesar]

As i've seen over the last year or so, copy protection is useless. It doesn't stop games being copied, and inconveniences honest customers. Companies should just give up caring about pirates and start caring about making sure the games they deliver are good quality.

[Caius]

No Starforce.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Obviously, no copying system is going to stop the pirates - if they want to bypass it, eventually they will. Despite this, I have no preference as to whether copy protection is included, as long as it isn't intrusive - after all, not having any wish to copy or pirate games, it doesn't really effect me.

FactionHeir posted some simple, but potentially effective ways of providing extra incentives for customers to buy the game at the bottom of this post. I don't really mind whether they do this or not - I buy the game, not additional materialistic accessories for it.

[Caius]

FactionHeir posted some simple, but potentially effective ways of providing extra incentives for customers to buy the game at the bottom of this post.

Those are good incentives.
Some games come with useful guides for newbie players, as C&C Renegade, and I found it very useful when I was a newbie at that game. I think CA should do this.

[Zenicetus]

I voted "yes, but not too invasive." Any CP at all is only harming paying customers, not pirates. So in the abstract, I'm totally against it, and I preferentially support developers like Stardock (Galactic Civilizations 2) who have abandoned it. However, being practical about this, I know it's easier for a small, independent outfit that self-publishes like Stardock to take the high ground, and it's less likely with a behemoth like Sega.

So I'll settle for non-invasive, non-arrogant methods that don't leave behind potential security risks and hidden files after the game is un-installed, like the current SecureRom installation for M2TW:Kingdoms does.

[Trax]

No, because it's absolutely useless.

[sapi]

Bethesda didn't go broke without it on Oblivion.

It will have very little effect on sales, but perhaps a negative one on community, if harsh measures are included.

[alpaca]

Bethesda didn't go broke without it on Oblivion.

It will have very little effect on sales, but perhaps a negative one on community, if harsh measures are included.

In fact I'd argue that removing it would even have a positive influence. Ok, the DRM lobby would like to bash you over the head but a lot of players would hail you for it, including me. From a PR point of view I believe it's the way to go before everyone does it
And I'm almost 100% sure that it won't affect sales negatively. Practically all people buy the game because they think it'll be good and want to do the right thing not because they can't pirate it.
I'd even argue that of all the players who buy TW games the number of people who'd rather pirate it than buy it but are deterred from that by copy protection is definitely negligible (that is I believe it's lower than 0.1%)

[sapi]

If someone was going to pirate the game, copy protection would make absolutely no difference...well, it might waste ten more seconds of their life finding a copy that has it bypassed, but that would be it.

I agree that the smart PR thing to do would be to ditch it; but I wouldn't like to be the one to have to sell that to the execs

[Matty]

The local counterfeit market had Kingdoms one day after release. Still the shops selling originals don't have it. I fear I am about to crack... (ho ho)

[Jeroen Hill]

Whats the use of a copy protection anyway. People who dont buy the game but download it get a working crack with the warez release in 99% of the cases. And people who did buy it sometimes get to deal with annoyances, securom+deamon tools anybody?

A copy protection is merely a small delay for warez groups to crack it, thats all.

So imho, save yourself money and drop the copy protection. It's not going to stop people from downloading it.

[Vuk]

lol, Star Force is still not letting me access my Task Manager. :P CopyProtection is a load of BS. I have never pirated a game in my life, but with very little difficulty could get my hands on Kingdoms w/out paying for it, or any of those darn Ubi games. I know a guy who buys games with copy protection, then breaks it for the heck of it. (He doesn't even distribute it, just likes to be able to do it)

The only people who it could turn off would have to be absolute idiots. I would love to see the sucsess rate for copyprotection. I can tell you first hand what it does to lawabiding gamers computers. (The reason I am not going to ever buy another Ubi game)


Vuk

[Laman]

Voted no, since as already said, it does not hinder the pirates at all. Might slow them down a few minutes or hours at best. Filthy pirates. If copy protection, non-invasive stuff. Otherwise it only annoys the legitimate users.

[Daithi MacGuillaCathair]

Definitly no and if they include stuff which will interfear with other programs i would be 99% tempted to get the cracked version rather than the actual game.

there is no point, anyone who cant figure out how to get a pirate version probably cant play the game anyway.

[NagatsukaShumi]

As its the industry I will be working in I voted yes, but with no intrusions etc. I think if the company wants to TRY and protect their game they should, they aren in it to make money, as we all are.

[TevashSzat]

I say, go for simple copy protection like cd keys and minor things that prevents the dvd from being easily copied.

This will prevent the majority of the common people who does it the old fashion way by burning discs and won't go dl it from the internet.

For those who just wants to pirate the game, no amount of copy protection will stop them and excessive cp will just irritate everyone.

[sapi]

The next working copy protection scheme (for a SP game, that is) will be the first, anyway

[ninjahboy]

if its a great game (which im sure it will be) such as oblivion, then there really isnt any need for copy protection. People will buy it for its value

[Daveybaby]

Copy protection is a pointless waste of everybody's time and money (except for companies such as starforce securom etc who make a fortune selling snake oil to gullible executives), so i'd much rather i didnt have to pay extra for the game so that a percentage can go to a bunch of con artists.

But as long as its not the intrusive crap theyve used with kingdoms i wouldnt be too bothered. However, if they even attempt to go the whole '5 installs and that's your lot' route i wont be buying a copy, thats for sure.

[hellenes]

The ONLY working copy protection is a MP oriented game...end of story.

[Whacker]

Simple, non-invasive, non-spyware, non-rootkit, simple cd-check type DRM is fine and honestly to be expected. Things that destroy my hardware, take over my system, constantly call home, require me to sign up for things, 'lock' my installation to a specific computer, limit how many times I can install, etc... are all reasons to boycott games. Unfortunate that Bioshock fell into this category...

In terms of multiplayer, keys are the best way to go, checked at a centralized server when a one enters the initial lobby. Valve had this idea right with WON, and f'd it all up with Steam (DRM riddle spyware). id Software got and had/has this right with the Quake series.

As sapi had the excellent point, the good ol' boys at Beth certainly didn't go broke on Oblivion. I've also heard tales from them about how much they've "projected" they lost to piracy in sales $, which unsurprisingly doesn't remotely jive with even the most liberal models based on the best statistics we have. The simple fact is that piracy does not make near enough dent financially as the industry would want us to believe.

Bottom line is there will always be pirates, what sells a game and buys the loyalty of the customer base is first and foremost having an amazing game, and having an excellent working relationship with the real communities comprised of the active gamers and supporters.

[Belgolas]

As long as it is not like BioSHock I am fine.

[Dhampir]

While I wholeheartedly agree that copy protection is quite useless for stopping piracy, it does serve a purpose.

It's good PR. More copy-protection- the less chance that the government will feel the need to step in and screw things up completely.

So to save the game industry from being ruined by government regulation- let's just be patient. Take a deep breath and accept a small burden for a great reward.












Disclaimer: This post was fueled by a lack of sleep and four bottles of a really decent pils.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Dhampir - all i can say to that is this - eh?

Why would lack of copy-protection be bad pr that would lead to government regulation?

[Vuk]

While I wholeheartedly agree that copy protection is quite useless for stopping piracy, it does serve a purpose.

It's good PR. More copy-protection- the less chance that the government will feel the need to step in and screw things up completely.

So to save the game industry from being ruined by government regulation- let's just be patient. Take a deep breath and accept a small burden for a great reward.

The government would not step in. It cannot force people to include certain types of copy-protection, etc. (If they don't want to, that is their own risk...we all know how well copy-protection works anyway. )

let's just be patient

Tell that to the three DVD drives I've had to buy in the last few years. Various games' copy protection software has messed with my computer so bad that it is not funny. I use different computers to do business on because of that crap. CD keys and all that other stuff is great (a bit annoying, but I dare say we will all get over it) if they want to protect their stuff, but it has gotten to the point where if you install the game you may have to start worrying about protecting YOUR stuff. That is ridiculous. As much as love the Splinter Cell series I have started boycotting UbiSoft (and will continue to do so unless whatever they replace StarForce with isn't invasing or destructive) and don't want to do that with Sega. (as I love the TW games) I got SecuRom infected Kingdoms because I learned that I already had been infected by another game, but am going to be buying a leet new gaming rig soon and am not going to install anything with that crap on it. I hope that doesn't mean that I won't be able to install Empire:TW.

Down with copyprotection!
Long live the US!!!



Vuk

[The Foolish Horseman]

Ah Copy Protection! Or should it be called 10 second delay for honest customers. Ever since daemon tools was realesed (google or wiki it) Copy protection has not been a problem for pirates. In fact it never really was.


I admit on the off hand to dabbling in Pirate Copys of other games not worth paying for like Alpha Centauri, But never with total war.



CA: Putting Copy protection on would just be a waste of time, disk space and work

[Neoncat]

I say nay. Copy protection is only annoyance for honest customers and no problem for pirates. Sometimes it even can be major annoyance for honest customers and still no problem for pirates. It won't even stop casual copying, because all those cracks are available on net.

With programs its not even like in war, you build walls to get it more costly to conquer your lands, because theres no cost on other side. Most people just crack games for fun. Its like youre building a fine wall that cracker will crush with his hammer and have fun with it. I just can't see reason in copy protections.

[Daveybaby]

I admit on the off hand to dabbling in Pirate Copys of other games not worth paying for like Alpha Centauri, But never with total war.

I take offense to this. Not the piracy thing - but saying AC is not worth paying for!??!?!??!?!?!?

Dude, that's so wrong it's not even funny. One of the best TBS of all time (still better than Civ4 IMO).