Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Linen Armour?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    7,967

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    Wasn't there a mention of the soldiers burning their old cuirasses upon receiving a new batch in the records of Alexander's campaigns ? Leather doesn't burn terribly well far as I know (and smell horrid when it does) and fire would thus seem to have been a somewhat unlikely method of waste disposal, which would logically suggest some form of fabric armour.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  2. #2
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
    Wasn't there a mention of the soldiers burning their old cuirasses upon receiving a new batch in the records of Alexander's campaigns ? Leather doesn't burn terribly well far as I know (and smell horrid when it does) and fire would thus seem to have been a somewhat unlikely method of waste disposal, which would logically suggest some form of fabric armour.
    That makes it sound wonderful against flaming projectiles - leader is atleast somewhat fire retardant. I would think they would also not be ideal in inclimate weather either. Cold and moldy aren't exactly good descriptors for armour.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  3. #3
    Member Member Oleander Ardens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,007

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    " Scale stops arrows and such pretty well by all accounts, and isn't half bad against most other weapons (although mail is on the average better it has some inherent issues with pointy things). Plus it's relatively cheap and simple to manufacture and maintain, which is always useful."

    (NoScript has some issue, quotes etc are not working right now) Good mail with thick padding is almost arrowproof, at least Dan Howard writes that a heavy warbow (over 130lbs iirc) was not able to penetrate it with historic bodkins from a close distance (~ 10m).

    But rightly the point is: Multilayered padding is excellent at absorbing the momentum of an projectile and a blow, but stops also the rare blunted arrowheads which were able to pierce the mail. The linothorax employs exactly the same mechanism to resist blunt, sharp and pointed force. So what is the essential difference between a scale-covered linothorax and a thickly padded scalearmor?

    Both employ practically the same mechanism to stop an attack. The scales deflect it or deform both themselves and the blade/arrowhead, spreading out the force while pressing against the absorbing multilayered fabric. The fabric in turn spreads out the force even further and reflects the blunted arrowhead/spearhead while transfering the force into the fat and muscles which too absorb the impact.

    So even if there are big differences in the construction the work rather in the same way, only that once has a thicker outer metalskin and a thinner inner clothlayers and viceversa. In fact every metalarmor makes good use of an inner mulitlayered fabric called padding which is of immense importance.

    So we have a standalone linen armor but also metal armor making use of its characteristics in the thinner form of padding.

    OA
    "Silent enim leges inter arma - For among arms, the laws fall mute"
    Cicero, Pro Milone

  4. #4
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    7,967

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    As a random side note, I understand arrowheads designed to pierce mail tended to be long and needle-like - the better to exploit the natural "openings" of the armour and punch through the inevitable padding underneath. Those designed against more solid-surface armour conversely tend to be comparatively short and robust "spikes" which can take the impact without snapping or deforming (as the aforementioned needle type tends to) and punch a hole.

    Anyway, I also understand practical tests suggest scale, with its smooth surface and (at least) double-layered armour elements, resists arrows and similar pointy things somewhat better than mail all other things being equal - mail always had some issues with points due to the way they get into the individual rings. (If the target is decked out in something like good lamellar or better, you may about as well try to start sniping at his face then.)
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  5. #5
    Member Member Oleander Ardens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,007

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    As a random side note, I understand arrowheads designed to pierce mail tended to be long and needle-like - the better to exploit the natural "openings" of the armour and punch through the inevitable padding underneath. Those designed against more solid-surface armour conversely tend to be comparatively short and robust "spikes" which can take the impact without snapping or deforming (as the aforementioned needle type tends to) and punch a hole.
    I agree. But strange as it sounds no medieval bodkins of steel or hardened iron were found to date, thus having the tendency to deform quite a bit when hitting steel armor. And when modern studies show that even steel bodkins will fail against a flatter and softer plate than historically employed it can be concluded that the historic description of platearmored knights in Flanders walking calmly through a storm of arrows is rather accurate.

    Anyway, I also understand practical tests suggest scale, with its smooth surface and (at least) double-layered armour elements, resists arrows and similar pointy things somewhat better than mail all other things being equal - mail always had some issues with points due to the way they get into the individual rings.
    I guess that one must include the ever present padding as well. Mail is a network of rings lying against an absorbing backing. A needle bodkin might find a way through one ring, but to go further he will to break both the ring and penetrate the padding. Padding offers as all clotharmor excellent protection against bodkin shaped threats. To inflict a significant wound the bodkinpoint must then break also the outer ring of mail formed by the other interlinking rings. So mail has a very refined way of stopping even so specialized designs from doing much harm...

    (If the target is decked out in something like good lamellar or better, you may about as well try to start sniping at his face then.)

    True. I want to add that a light quilted overcloth made of some layers of linen and over the armor is an great way to enhance the protection against armorpiercing weapons. And it is often hard to see if a rider wears a piece of armor underneath. So one wonders not that the drawing weights of the composite bows of the steppe archers required so long training and were able to propel arrows over so a long distances - and that armor was so sought after...

    OA
    "Silent enim leges inter arma - For among arms, the laws fall mute"
    Cicero, Pro Milone

  6. #6
    Handler of candles Member Xehh II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Super Magical Greatness Land
    Posts
    1,367

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    What's the closest armour, in looks, to linothorax?
    So if you don't have linothorax but you want to look like you do what could you wear?
    A ha ha! Rainbows and unicorns! Rainbows and unicorns!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    White painted SWAT-like armour?

    EDIT: Remove the extra reinforcements though.
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 09-24-2007 at 11:55.
    - Tellos Athenaios
    CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread


    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

  8. #8
    Handler of candles Member Xehh II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Super Magical Greatness Land
    Posts
    1,367

    Default Re: Linen Armour?

    Seriously, what armour looks like linothorax?
    A ha ha! Rainbows and unicorns! Rainbows and unicorns!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO