Balance in Kingdoms - myth or reality

[Guru]

May be someone from ascended, those, who know the "real" balance and stats, will tell me truth about units, so i will be able adjust it to my actual gameplay? So, you say:" dont beleve in what you see in game". Lol. Mod it? Lol. The secret mass of horse riders?Lol. Bye, bye, TW.

What is your point? You post a thread claiming that Kingdoms is unbalanced because of the different stats of mounted and dismounted units. It's ok, an opinion like any other. People reply and present opinions why the stats might be the way they are. Yet you reply to those replies with unnecessary irony, or even mockery, one might say.
How does this statistic unbalance affect gameplay after all? Are spearmen overpowered? Is cavalry underpowered? So far you have only presented screenshots of unit cards. That proves little about balance on battlefield because there are so many factors. Due to this I can't really see what is the problem. If you'd be so kind and explain how this unbalance is apparent on the battlemap, and without irony this time if I may ask.

- Guru

[Shahed]

I think what zaher means is that cavalry is underpowered.

[zaher]

I think what zaher means is that cavalry is underpowered.

And are absolutely right.


"What is your point? You post a thread claiming that Kingdoms is unbalanced because of the different stats of mounted and dismounted units. It's ok, an opinion like any other. People reply and present opinions why the stats might be the way they are. Yet you reply to those replies with unnecessary irony, or even mockery, one might say.
How does this statistic unbalance affect gameplay after all? Are spearmen overpowered? Is cavalry underpowered? So far you have only presented screenshots of unit cards. That proves little about balance on battlefield because there are so many factors. Due to this I can't really see what is the problem. If you'd be so kind and explain how this unbalance is apparent on the battlemap, and without irony this time if I may ask."
- Guru


I dont really see what was a problem in original MTW2 after patch 1.2 ...
You can read my whinings in another thread below. I am not concurent company espionage expert to have a facts of game hidden or codded from me. And everyday i find something new, and ppl telling me: "its ok", "its a mass", "theese are not actual statistics", "your cavalry will die because of missile fire, but if it reach it can charge". I think that cavalry in MTW2 just wasnt acted honestly, it killed peasants, some was charging without orders, and some was able to keep their line until charge, so, now, they kinda getting therapy like a hero of "Clockwork Orange" had.


After all, some changes overall in game are good ( i am talking about money balance, i like, that i never have useless stacks of armies and other strategic changes ).

[joe4iz]

In game experience for me has not really proved or disproved unit balance. Certain tactics still apply. I've had calvery charge into the rear of an enemy stack and take out 2/3 of the units in the initial charge. I can't recall that happening in vanilla.

Just an opinion.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

Zaher i can send you the money you paid for kingdoms if you're so unhappy mate

[zaher]

Zaher i can send you the money you paid for kingdoms if you're so unhappy mate

Thanks, mate, better send me normal units. I like TW, but even unpatched RTW is more balanced for me ( taken from legend of RTW times ).

[ixidor]

In M2TW i could send a single generals bodyguard against 2 units archers and 2 units of cheap spears defending a town square and win 9 times out of 10. In kingdoms i would get eaten 9 times out of 10 so something has changed bad or good to early to tell new animations changed stuff.

Pretty much bullshit. With 2 units of MILITIA spearmen and 2 of peasent archers you can kill any general unit. Why i say it? Because i had already did it, with 3 units of militia spearmen and 1 of peasent archers i beat 1 bodyguard unit and 1 unit of mailed knights. How? Schiltron formation. Peasents and militias against heavy cavalry and they won. I did this myself in VH so no excuses.

I seriously think cavalry is higher underpower here in Kingdoms. It seems some people believe that heavy cavalry was only for rear charges. No, no, no, VERY wrong, the point is, rear charges with heavy cavalry was the ultimate weapon in a battlefield. See how 6k heavy cavalry from hannibal destroyed 88k infantry from the romans in cannae. That's what, 2 units attacking the rear of a 20 unit's army (using total war numbers)? And still see the monumental damage it did. Heavy cavalry was made to take the opponents HEAD ON. Rear and flank charges was simply a genius way to maximize their effect to a degree of mass destruction and mass decrease on moral. But they were made for charges head on. See how alexander won the battle of Chaeronea for example. He made a breach with, guess what, a front charge and with only 2k heavy cavalry (against 35k...). If he tried that in kingdoms he would probably killed :lol:. Or see Carrhae's example, in which 1k heavy cavalry and 9k hourse archers beat the hell of 35k elite legionairs... AND archers alone were especially good demoralizing the foe since just some volleys were never enough to make much extendable damage, only prolongaded fire made significal damage. Or do you think that archers were LOTR elves, that kill a man with every single arrow?

[Guru]

I wouldn't say cavalry is underpowered. I played some custom battles (VH, medium unit sizes). 21 general's bodyguards (late, teutonic) against 76 Novgorodian spearmen (Armour upgraded to heavy mail) - heavy cavalry charging braced spearmen in schiltron (sp?) formation. The bodyguards had no problems wasting those spearmen and lost only 4-7 men. I admit having charged a few times but that's what you do in most battles anyway? Swordsmen still seem to beat spearmen; 60 armoured swordsmen (english) beat 75 order spearmen (teutonic). Both have partial plate, spearmen have a bit better stats and 15 soldiers more. It was almost a draw though.
In my campaign as New Spain one unit of conquistadores ended up with over 350 kills plus loads of prisoners. Most of the kills came from frontal charges against braced native formations. The conquistadores lost only 3-4 men in the process. The Americas campaign clearly favours cavalry; the natives lack proper spearmen and conquitadores have 2 hp. Bodyguards 3hp!
I haven't been playing Kingdoms very much yet but I think like current balance. (or unbalance )

- Guru