Owwwwwww well let's look at the bright side

[Fragony]

Half of the mosks in Great Brittain don't call for Jihad.

Hmmm I still feel bad, it's sounds better but it's the same thing. Hmmm.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2402973.ece

'Almost half of Britain’s mosques are under the control of a hardline Islamic sect whose leading preacher loathes Western values and has called on Muslims to “shed blood” for Allah, an investigation by The Times has found.'

Oh really I am shocked.

'Many had their studies funded by local education authority grants'

Hey, just like home, lefties activily funding islamisation, somebody tell the usefull fools that the dhimma-award is a price you pay. But they probably know that but just can't survive without muslim votes anymore, how very Faust of them.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Doing fine England, really.

[rory_20_uk]

I hope you're not trying to discriminate are you? That's a sin that is.

If hating the UK and plotting to kill people is part of their religion or culture, what can we do??

Half isn't too bad. I'm sure with enough grants we can increase the percentage.

[InsaneApache]

?Half isn't too bad. I'm sure with enough grants we can increase the percentage.

To 100%?

[rory_20_uk]

To 100%?

Heh, that was the implication

[Don Corleone]

Half of the mosques in London?

I don't believe that. Everyone I know has assured me that only a tiny fraction of a splinter encourage violence in Islam.

Maybe 'shed blood for Islam' and 'kill all the infidels' are metaphorical terms.

Besides, the Times is a very, very, extremely right-wing newspaper that says what the government tells them to. Until I see an article in the Guardian that says the same thing, nobody can believe it.

[Lemur]

You're missing the real ray of sunshine:

It is not suggested that all British Muslims who worship at Deobandi mosques subscribe to the isolationist message preached by Mr ul Haq, and he himself suggests Muslims should only “shed blood” overseas.

See? It's only overseas. So as long as you stay on the west side of the Chunnel, you should be fine.

[Don Corleone]

Seriously now, where do the Deobandis line up in the whole Sunni/Shite split? Are they any relation to Wahabists?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And quite a few US Catholics favor chemical or barrier contraception and the judicial use of the death penalty despite the Church preaching against both. So, obviously, no congregation can be assumed to monolithically conform to the stated dictates of their church.

However....

On the whole I am rather happier with a church that preaches in favor of life than one which calls for blood. Obviously that must be discriminatory on my part.....

[Xiahou]

I know it makes me a racist, but I've always felt that if someone is trying to immigrate to your country all the while claiming you are a corrupt, evil society that needs to be destroyed.... maybe you shouldn't let them in.

Edit:
I can imagine the immigration interviews:

So, what do you offer our country Mr. Immigrant?
Death to the infidels!
I see, well we have plenty of infidels here- you should do just fine. Welcome aboard!

[Don Corleone]

I know it makes me a racist, but I've always felt that if someone is trying to immigrate to your country all the while claiming you are a corrupt, evil society that needs to be destroyed.... maybe you shouldn't let them in.

Edit:
I can imagine the immigration interviews:

So, what do you offer our country Mr. Immigrant?
Death to the infidels!
I see, well we have plenty of infidels here- you should do just fine. Welcome aboard!

That was the most chilling part of the article. You must have missed where they said its 2nd and 3rd generation. They quoted a guy from Pakistan saying (paraphrasing) "You've let the Deobandis run wild over there, and now they're much more extreme then they are in Pakistan".

I found the comments from readers at the bottom very telling as well. By and large, the readers chose to blame British society for not making the 2nd and 3rd generation muslims feel more welcomed and accepted.

So, basically, if you're Christian or Jewish, grow up and get a job. But if you're Muslim, you should be coddled? No offense to most Muslims on the boards. If anything, the assumption that Muslims are a hair's breath away from violence and the British government needs to take all extraordinary measures to placate you should be downright insulting.

[Tribesman]

I think another view is needed on this story ....
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007410806,00.html
Oh sorry thats the times with tits version


So now Frag....

Half of the mosks in Great Brittain don't call for Jihad.

Wouldn't that mean that half of the mosques are not mosques ? perhaps they are pubs and betting shops and the murdoch journalists just got a bit lost and confused .

From the times

In another talk, delivered a few weeks before 9/11, he praises Muslims who have gained martyrdom in battle and laments that today “no one dare utter the J word”. “The J word has become taboo . .. The J word is jihad in the way of Allah.”

isn't that wierd , if no one dares say the word how come half of the mosques are calling for it ?
The suns version is funnier though , apparently the same lines are an attack on Jews , perhaps they were longer in the pub than the times writers .

Hey, just like home, lefties activily funding islamisation

Errrrrr...Frag this is Britain they are talking about , those LEA grants would be from either conservative or new labour run commitees in the areas in question , which of those is a leftie party ?

[HoreTore]

Bah. We've beaten christianity, Islam won't be any harder.

[Husar]

Hey, just like home, lefties activily funding islamisation,

Just yesterday I heard a comment from a green party member who said that Germans visiting terrorist training camps in Pakistan would not necessarily go there to become terrorists, they might go there for information gathering or erm (well, he was thinking) other things (that's all he came up with ).

Yeah I mean my dream holidays include visiting a terrorist training camp to have a nice discussion with them about why the bible is better than the quran. Or maybe just eat some cookies with the nice guys there. Or find a husband for my future daughter, or....

[The Wizard]

The Deobandi movement, part of the Hanafi maddhab (a school of fiqh, or Islamic law), does not necessarily promote terrorism, friend. The head of its main establishment, in Delhi, India, has, if I remember correctly, officially denounced those students (taleban, you may know them ) who formed the clerical dictatorship in Afghanistan and now threaten democracy there as we speak. He views them as misguided and outside of the Deobandi system of teaching, taught as he was by wayward Deobandi madrassas in the Pakistani tribal areas.

Seriously now, where do the Deobandis line up in the whole Sunni/Shite split? Are they any relation to Wahabists?

The Deobandi tradition within the Hanafi maddhab was born as a revivalist movement for the Muslim community in India, which had gone strongly into decline following the failure of the Sepoy Rebellion and the transferring of power from the British East India Company to the British state itself (for instance, while a highly literate community before the Sepoy Mutiny, the subsequent institution of English as the sole language of communication and education in British India meant the sharp decline of literacy amongst Indian Muslims, leading to the fact that by 1910 literacy in Urdu was 20%, down from a whopping near 100%; in the same vein, only some sixty graduates of Calcutta's university, out of 3000, were Muslims between 1858 and 1878, while in the 1880s only one Muslim out of every twenty-five was enrolled in British-run colleges).

The Deobandis said that it was the fact that the Muslim community in India had strayed from the Qur'an, the sunnah, and the shari'a in general had led to their downfall and marginalization, and invoked the memory of the rich, powerful Mughal empire and its golden age of intellectual and cultural life for Indian Islamic society (though it must be said that it wasn't too bad for Sikhs, Hindus, Jains and Buddhists before Aurangzeb, either). Returning to that would be the medicine for all their ills. They were (and are) opposed and rivalled by the Aligarh Muslim University (in Delhi as well), which is run on the idea that the learning and practicing of Western techniques is the way forward for Indian Muslims. The Deobandi system is surpassed only by Cairo's al-Azhar University for teaching and scholarship in Islam in the Sunni world.

So no, they aren't anywhere near the Wahhabis, Qutbists or Salafists. They represent the traditional, conservative line within the Sunni world which is likely that of the overwhelming majority of world Muslims.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Bah. We've beaten christianity, Islam won't be any harder.

Beaten?

Perhaps you mean "ignored" or "discarded?"

Christianity hasn't been "opposed" to any Scandanavians for most of a millenium.

[Don Corleone]

Beaten?

Perhaps you mean "ignored" or "discarded?"

Christianity hasn't been "opposed" to any Scandanavians for most of a millenium.

I believe he was speaking in his role as secular humanist, not Scandanavian. I believe HoreTore's 'beaten' comment stems from the realization that everyone he knows is atheistic as he is. I didn't consider it worth answering, as he hardly appears to have taken an objective or exhaustive look at the number of Christians in his own country, let alone worldwide. But let a hippy dream, man.

[Geoffrey S]

Bah. We've beaten christianity, Islam won't be any harder.

Well, if by beaten you mean "turned into a crucial cornerstone of modern society"...

[The Wizard]

In before theism vs atheism drama

[Don Corleone]

Good lord, I need an organziational chart for all these splinter groups.

Anyway, it sounds (to me) as though the Deobandis are a reactionary educational group that looks back on the past fondly and says "well, the best things have ever been was 700 years ago, so we need to return to 700 years back". Is that correct? They're essentially the angry, violent muslim version of the Amish?

And did I understand you correctly that they're Sunni, not Shiite?

[The Wizard]

Angry and violent? Not really. Real conservative? Hell yes. Scions of their school can transform into terrorists and tyrants? Yep.

And yes, they're Sunnis. The Deobandi madrassa in Delhi, their primary institution of higher learning, is second only to Cairo's al-Azhar in prestige for scholarship in the Sunni world.

[Boyar Son]

Wow never knew it was that bad in england.

Will this make you guy's vote for more pro-england parties in government, or at least something, after all, no one should actually threaten your life publicaly (for a long time too). no mater what freedom of speech.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

But let a hippy dream, man.

I keep hearing Christopher Guest singing "Listen to what the flower people say..."

This one goes to 11.

[Navaros]

whose leading preacher loathes Western values

That phrase is hilarious. They don't hate "Western values". Rather, they hate that there is no such thing was "Western values," because "The West" has no values.

The above quoted phrase is but one of endless examples of sneaky media bias towards a secular humanist agenda.

[InsaneApache]

I'm from the west and I have values. They happen not to be religious based ones.

Far better to make your own mind up than be spoon fed values by controlling (religious) elites.

[Slyspy]

Quickly, nail big pieces of jagged wood over the windows before a rampaging mob of Muslims crash through complaining that their benefits hardly cover the cost of making protest banners.

We must elect the nearest bunch of facists and neo-nazis into power ASAP!

Further sacrifice of the rights of many in order to maybe prevent the possible criminality of the few!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That phrase is hilarious. They don't hate "Western values". Rather, they hate that there is no such thing was "Western values," because "The West" has no values.

The above quoted phrase is but one of endless examples of sneaky media bias towards a secular humanist agenda.

Nav':

What you label and deride as the "secular humanist agenda" is, in point of fact, a very clear values set by which one can live one's life.

You may think their value set is inherently misguided and predicated on a list of assumptions that you believe to be wrong, but that does not belie the existence of value set for that "agenda."

Besides, are you not, yourself, a "Westerner" with a clear value set? How can "The West" be bereft of values in its entirety?

A passionate response, but logically a tad "sloppy."

[Mikeus Caesar]

Wow never knew it was that bad in england.

Will this make you guy's vote for more pro-england parties in government, or at least something, after all, no one should actually threaten your life publicaly (for a long time too). no mater what freedom of speech.

Sorry to go a bit off-topic here, but we can't vote for pro-england parties - this is Britain!

When will you people learn that there is no such thing as England. England is not a country, it is just an area of the country of the United Kingdom.

[Del Arroyo]

Sorry to go a bit off-topic here, but we can't vote for pro-england parties - this is Britain!

When will you people learn that there is no such thing as England. England is not a country, it is just an area of the country of the United Kingdom.

Then what about the Welsh and the Scots?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, Wales was never really a country. There was only one Welsh Prince of Wales and Long Shanks did for him. Scotland and England came into personal union in 1603 when a Scottish king took the English throne and into political and national union in 1707 when the Scottish parliament agreed to disolve itself at the behest of a German Queen.

England and Ireland came into personnal union under Henry VIII after the reformantion and into political and national union in 1801.

Since then Southern Ireland has broken away completely, Northern Ireland has it's own assambly, as the do the Welsh, while Scotland has a new parliament in a tacky new building. All these countries now exist seperately from the United Kingdom to one degree or another.

However, there is currently no English parliament.

[Mikeus Caesar]

I know i'm dragging away from the original subject here, but it really gets on my nerves this whole 'scotland, wales and england' thing. STOP BEING NATIONALISTS IDIOTS AND JUST BE UNITED AS YOU HAVE BEEN FOR THE LAST 300 YEARS. The country functioned fine until you all started thinking about countries of olde that ceased to exist a long time ago.