The uhh... Grey Horde

[Roark]

Seljuks/High/Hard/XL/1232

Well, as I was discussing with Martok in another thread, I recently came up against the biggest Horde I've ever seen.

More than 20 stacks in Khazar, 12+ in Armenia, and another 10 in Georgia.

I literally only had a "border defence", as in: great armies on my frontiers, but minimal garrisons inland. So, losing any one battle against the Mongols would have meant that they could have gutted my empire after having broken through the tough shell.

I had to recruit mercs galore and luckily, found myself a couple of Cuman Warrior units and a unit of English Longbowmen, all with armour piercing capabilities, unlike my standard Turcoman Foot soldiers.

Somehow, I managed to repel the Mongol armies in Georgia and Armenia, but with significant loss (900 men total) due to horse archer attrition and lack of trees. Of course, this meant that all of the Khan's troops were concentrated in Khazar.

I moved my ragged veterans to Georgia, along with that year's trained replacements and waited for the wave to hit...

The following year, the Khan himself (6 stars) led all three of his sons against me with about 7 stacks of troops.

I captured and executed the Khan in the first attack, but this had little effect on the wave after wave of Mongol Heavies, infantry and Mongol horse archers who came up against my paranoid half-hex. I think I counted 9 concerted attacks in total before they called it a day. Very long battle.

I got my "butcher" vice.

The end result was that the Khan and all of his heirs are dead, and there are about 35,000 rebel soldiers in Khazar!

Lucky for me, too, because I don't think I would have survived another concerted invasion. I just don't have the production capability to replace troops quickly enough. The downside, of course, is that my Russian rivals will get full points for "Survive the Mongols" due to MY efforts!! Grrr...

Anyway... am I likely to get some breathing room next turn, or will the rebels be just as aggressive due to their sheer numbers?

I've definitely seen rebel armies take the offensive, but usually only when the target is especially weak.

[Martok]

I've definitely seen rebel armies take the offensive, but usually only when the target is especially weak.

You've just named what's probably the key factor. If your surviving garrisons are still of a decent size, they might leave you be. If not, then you could be in trouble.

One recommendation: If you've got the cash, you should bribe some of those rebel stacks. Former Mongol troops tend to be fairly cheap.

[Sensei Warrior]

I agree with Martok. I don't think I've ever seen a rebel stack attack, but I've heard stories. Anyways, my personal opinion is to bribe like you've never bribed before. Suck up all those stacks, or at least a number of them. Use them to wipe the rest or refortify your holdings or whatever.

Usually if you have decent defenses they leave you alone, but what are decent defenses against 35,000 troops? Good luck, and let us know, sounds like a good game you got going there.

[Roark]

Thanks for the advice, lads.

Yeah, I noticed that Mongol Heavies only have an upkeep of 50 florins!!! Sweet, sweet economics.

I've got about 15K in the bank, but I'm a bit funny about inheriting battle-damaged stacks of former rebels. Especially when I can't replace them.

If I bribe just a couple of stacks at a time, I can simply abandon the province when the battle screen comes up can't I, like, without losing the troops to ransom? They'll be transported next door to Georgia, yeah?

[Sensei Warrior]

As long as the bribed stacks have a Provence to retreat to, you shouldn't have a problem. IIRC I use to do this with French and Italian stacks when playing the English. Bribe a stack and then abandon the attack when the option came up. Course, its been a long time since I've done it, so there is a slight chance I could be wrong. To be on the safe side save the game before you end turn. That way in case I'm wrong you've lost nothing.

-lol, I'm still getting a kick out of the title ...Re: The uhh... Grey Horde

[macsen rufus]

IIRC you can't withdraw bribed troops to another province - I'm sure you get a warning about this at the pre-battle screen, same as with loyalist uprisings. That's why I always try to bribe enough of them to be able to win the unavoidable battle. Unless you send in extra troops I think you only get the two options - fight it yourself, or autoresolve.

I do like to have at least one Mongol stack amongst my forces, and as so rightly pointed out, they are CHEAP to feed There's nothing worse than having no money the year the Khan dies

And yes, rebels can attack, though it's not common it does appear to occur more around the steppes - I'm sure the size of rebel armies has a lot to do with it....

And Roark, if you get your emissary busy it may be true that the Russians have survived the Khan, but you still have the opportunity for them not to survive the Mongols You need to teach them a lesson about freebooting points off your efforts, after all

[Sensei Warrior]

IIRC you can't withdraw bribed troops to another province - I'm sure you get a warning about this at the pre-battle screen, same as with loyalist uprisings. That's why I always try to bribe enough of them to be able to win the unavoidable battle. Unless you send in extra troops I think you only get the two options - fight it yourself, or autoresolve.

Hmm I might have been wrong then, tread carefully Roark. I wonder what I was doin with the French and Italians then, maybe withdrawing off the field?

And Roark, if you get your emissary busy it may be true that the Russians have survived the Khan, but you still have the opportunity for them not to survive the Mongols You need to teach them a lesson about freebooting points off your efforts, after all

Agreed.

[Roark]

Well, it turns out that the rebels are still hungry for Turkish lands, despite their entire royal family being wiped out.

Since the Khan's death, I've face two years' worth of nightmarishly large invasions in Georgia by the "Khazars" (as they are now called), first 4,000 troops and then 5,500. I've held on so far, but only just.

My supplies of ultra-specialist mercs recruited from the Inn in Lesser Armenia (1x Billmen, 3x Lancers, 2x Cuman Warriors) have now dried up, and I'm left with pretty ordinary mercs attempting to hock me their wares at exorbitant prices (read: Mounted Sarges, SHC, Genoese Sailors etc).

Things are looking grim, most especially because, as the Khazar forces continually invade me (and get killed/captured), their stack compositions keep changing and my emissaries are completely unable to bribe anyone!!

Anyway, my income from confiscating rebel lands is fine, but I don't have anything really nice to spend it on. My regular Turkish strategies are useless against the Mongol Khazars, because their horse archers are second to none (except maybe Szekely).

So I just have to sit and take it and wait for them to run out of troops or stop invading. My troop production is fully committed to this Eastern theatre, and the French and Germans have both just launched crusades against me...

Meanwhile, the Russians have wiped out the Teutonic Order and the Cumans. They have one full stack sitting in Lesser Khazar, but I haven't got any agents up North, so I can only imagine how big they are right now... 3 of their emissaries have just moved in to have a look-see...



This is exactly why I love the Seljuks. Never a dull moment.

On a happy note... my staunch allies, the Bulgarians, are doing quite well. It's nice to see underdog factions proliferate somewhat.

[OmarPacha]

If the rebel raiding party is only of 4000-5000, then you may have a chance simply bribing half of the khazars army; better if you let them take the province and retreat to the castle and begin to bribe - focusing only on a few stacks (not less than 3-4 emissaries for each stack).
Next year go to break the siege but enter the battle screen and retreat; this will prevent the rebels to assault the castle while you take only minor losses among besieged.
Third year you should have the support of bribed army and fight the battle to release the province, anyway defeat gives you time to move troops from neighbor regions.

[Roark]

Well after 4 years of mindbuggering assaults by the Khazar Mongols on poor old Georgia, I finally started successfully bribing the rebels stacks.

I've been earning around 30,000 florins per year just from confiscated lands (!), which I've just been pumping into bribery missions to deplete the huge numbers of Khazar Mongol stacks. Out of sheer laziness (and shortly after my fiancee's pleading to "come to bed, for Pete's sake!") I autocalced two years' worth of rebel vs bribed-rebel battles.

For anyone who's interesting, the only available battlefield options are Command the Battle Personally, or Autocalc. Unfortunately, you can't just cut and run with your newly-bribed stacks.

ANYWAY, the depleted rebels have finally stopped attacking me and, next turn, I'm counting on my 4 triple-starred emissaries delivering me 4 fat stacks full of Mongolia's finest, after which I plan to disband most of my lily-livered Turcoman Horse until I can build a Master Horse Breeder with a Ribat and Armourers Guild.

Here endeth the saga...

Meanwhile, in the space of 3 years:

- My allies, the Bulgarians, have betrayed me, setting off a chain reaction of alliance cancellations.
- My allies, the Sicilians, have declared a crusade against me. More alliance cancellations.
- The Pope has announced to the Catholic world that he hates me, god hates me, and he wants everyone to kill me.
- At the doorstep to Constantinople: Fat crusades sponsored by the French, the Germans AND the Sicilians.
- My only ally, the Ayyubid dynasty, slowly gather their armies in Syria and Palestine, preparing to stab me in the back...

I'll have Janissaries marching off the production line in about 8 years. Just need to survive until then.

Alla-hu Akhbar!!!!

If the rebel raiding party is only of 4000-5000, then you may have a chance simply bribing half of the khazars army; better if you let them take the province and retreat to the castle and begin to bribe - focusing only on a few stacks (not less than 3-4 emissaries for each stack).
Next year go to break the siege but enter the battle screen and retreat; this will prevent the rebels to assault the castle while you take only minor losses among besieged.
Third year you should have the support of bribed army and fight the battle to release the province, anyway defeat gives you time to move troops from neighbor regions.

Tricky!

[Martok]

Well after 4 years of mindbuggering assaults by the Khazar Mongols on poor old Georgia, I finally started successfully bribing the rebels stacks.

I've been earning around 30,000 florins per year just from confiscated lands (!), which I've just been pumping into bribery missions to deplete the huge numbers of Khazar Mongol stacks. Out of sheer laziness (and shortly after my fiancee's pleading to "come to bed, for Pete's sake!") I autocalced two years' worth of rebel vs bribed-rebel battles.

For anyone who's interesting, the only available battlefield options are Command the Battle Personally, or Autocalc. Unfortunately, you can't just cut and run with your newly-bribed stacks.

ANYWAY, the depleted rebels have finally stopped attacking me and, next turn, I'm counting on my 4 triple-starred emissaries delivering me 4 fat stacks full of Mongolia's finest, after which I plan to disband most of my lily-livered Turcoman Horse until I can build a Master Horse Breeder with a Ribat and Armourers Guild.

Here endeth the saga...

Good show, mate. Glad you were able to withstand the Khazars' onslaught.

Meanwhile, in the space of 3 years:

- My allies, the Bulgarians, have betrayed me, setting off a chain reaction of alliance cancellations.
- My allies, the Sicilians, have declared a crusade against me. More alliance cancellations.
- The Pope has announced to the Catholic world that he hates me, god hates me, and he wants everyone to kill me.
- At the doorstep to Constantinople: Fat crusades sponsored by the French, the Germans AND the Sicilians.
- My only ally, the Ayyubid dynasty, slowly gather their armies in Syria and Palestine, preparing to stab me in the back...

I'll have Janissaries marching off the production line in about 8 years. Just need to survive until then.

Alla-hu Akhbar!!!!

Ah, the joys of playing the Turks -- mayhem & mischief everywhere. Good luck on the rest of your campaign, Roark (although hopefully you won't need it)!

[Sensei Warrior]

Man this sounds like a rip roaring game. WHOOT! Good for you. Lets see ...

Sorry bout the bad advice with the whole abadon the provence thing, I must have been withdrawing the army of the field after I gained them. Hmm, now even I wonder what I was doing.

(and shortly after my fiancee's pleading to "come to bed, for Pete's sake!")

Just a word of friendly advice, your fiancee should be pleading with you, but not for that.

Keep us posted, I'd love to hear how the next 8 years turn out.