A Nazi-Britain Nonagression Pact???

[Ayachuco]

I heard from one of my friends that during the winter of 1942, Herman Goering made several covert trips to Britain to get a truce agreement. Is this true or is it something from the rumor mill. Do you guys have any information about it?

[Watchman]

Even if he did, I'd imagine that by '42 the Brits just told him to take his truce and do embarassing things with it.
Very politely of course.

[Csargo]

Sounds insane honestly...

[Gurkhal]

I find it very unlikly that there would be truce-talks at that time. Must say that untill there is some refeerence for it, it's most likly just a rumor.

[Husar]

I agree with watchman though we all know that the Nazis actually thought of the British as part of their master race so it might be true.

[CountArach]

I thought that one was offered before the war?

[Kralizec]

I heard from one of my friends that during the winter of 1942, Herman Goering made several covert trips to Britain to get a truce agreement. Is this true or is it something from the rumor mill. Do you guys have any information about it?

I know Himmler made a one-way trip to Brittain to discuss a ceasefire as late as 1945. The Allies weren't interested at that point, and Hitler found out and considered him a traitor from that point on.

[Watchman]

What, Weirdo Cultist Chicken-Breeder Himmler actually had that much sense ? I'd frankly never have imagined.

[Husar]

Same here Watchman. Very disturbing.

[Ayachuco]

I just asked in depth about this situation and I got some facts wrong.
It was the winter of 1941 (a few weeks before Pearl Harbor)
It involved an unarmed/unknown pilot who crashed landed in Scotland after making three such trips from germany to england.
The pilot said that he was on an covert diplomatic mission to establish a truce
and that Hitler was aware of the mission.
The commanding British officer believed that the pilot was Goering, but we'll never know for sure b/c Churchill quickly dismissed that Goering was in England and the pilot also got back to Germany (The British think)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I just asked in depth about this situation and I got some facts wrong.
It was the winter of 1941 (a few weeks before Pearl Harbor)
It involved an unarmed/unknown pilot who crashed landed in Scotland after making three such trips from germany to england.
The pilot said that he was on an covert diplomatic mission to establish a truce
and that Hitler was aware of the mission.
The commanding British officer believed that the pilot was Goering, but we'll never know for sure b/c Churchill quickly dismissed that Goering was in England and the pilot also got back to Germany (The British think)

I believe it was Rudolf Hess who stole an Me-110, flew to Scotland, tried to get a truce and was imprisoned by the British. I'm actually almost 100% certain it was Hess.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
It was Rudolf Hess who flew to Britain with the hopes of arranging a truce. However, he was imprisoned and held as a prisoner during the war. Sentenced to lifetime in Nüremberg, he comitted suicide sometime in the early 90's, after which the Spandau prison was destroyed.

(From memory... Details should be corrected.)

Add.: Detailed and interesting information rests on Wikipedia.
.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
We were typing at the same time, Uesugi Kenshin.
.

[Ayachuco]

.
It was Rudolf Hess who flew to Britain with the hopes of arranging a truce. However, he was imprisoned and held as a prisoner during the war. Sentenced to lifetime in Nüremberg, he comitted suicide sometime in the early 90's, after which the Spandau prison was destroyed.

(From memory... Details should be corrected.)

Add.: Detailed and interesting information rests on Wikipedia.
.

Wow, never would have thought it was Hess.
Thanks for the info enlightened one.
Now I can rest easy.

[Kralizec]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himmler

Himmler tried to offer Germany's surrender to Eisenhower in 1945. I remembered it because it was shown in Der Untergang.

Except that he didn't go to Brittain, apparently. Maybe I mixed up a few things with Rudolf Hess.

[Pannonian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himmler

Himmler tried to offer Germany's surrender to Eisenhower in 1945. I remembered it because it was shown in Der Untergang.

Except that he didn't go to Brittain, apparently. Maybe I mixed up a few things with Rudolf Hess.

He hardly needed to go to Britain to get access to the British command. In addition to Monty's presence as the field commander, Churchill also made a field trip as soon as Germany was entered, in which he took great pleasure in undoing his trousers and pissing in the Rhine.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Before and during the early years of the war German generals sent a number of covert envoys to Britain to try to keep the peace. Pierre Galante wrote a very good account of this in (I believe) Operation Valkyrie: The German General's Plot To Kill Hitler.

[nokhor]

a little of topic but there has was a rumour several years back that the nazis and soviets negotiated in sweden, chronologically circa sometime around between the battles of stalingrad and kursk. the negotiations didn't amount to much because hitler wanted to keep the lands he had already won, and stalin wanted the germans to go back to the pre-barbarossa borders. stalin was willing to pull out of the war effort since the western allies were letting the soviets bleed themselves dry without opening the second front, and hitler was willing to stop the war in the east so he could only have a 1 front war in the west. but hitler didn't want to vacate the lands won, and of course he feared that the soviets would stab him in the back once he was committed to fighting against the western powers.

[The Wizard]

Himmler tried to offer Germany's surrender to Eisenhower in 1945. I remembered it because it was shown in Der Untergang.

Heck -- he wanted a post in the post-war government, to boot. I believe he even had the gall to mention his experience with keeping order

[Stig]

I thought that one was offered before the war?

Oh:



Or, as Monty Python put it:
"Britains great pre-war joke"

[Watchman]

Heck -- he wanted a post in the post-war government, to boot. I believe he even had the gall to mention his experience with keeping order

Then again, it's not like he had anything to lose trying either...

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Then again, it's not like he had anything to lose trying either...

What about his dignity?


Oh wait he'd already lost that, along with essentially everything else, including what little sanity he may have been born with. Carry on.

[TinCow]

The Hess mission is still hotly debated and there is no conclusive evidence that the mission was officially authorized. Anyone who says that Hess was there to negotiate peace on behalf of Hitler is operating on pure speculation. We won't know until the UK releases the classified information on it, which they have repeatedly failed to do. It is equally likely that Hess was just exhibiting the early stages of the psychiatric disorder that later became full-blown.

It may be worth mentioning that a peace-feeler was made via Mussolini (neutral at the time) during the leadup to the Dunkirk crisis. It got nowhere, as the successful evacuation gave Churchill's government enough strength to remain in power.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

The Hess mission is still hotly debated and there is no conclusive evidence that the mission was officially authorized. Anyone who says that Hess was there to negotiate peace on behalf of Hitler is operating on pure speculation. We won't know until the UK releases the classified information on it, which they have repeatedly failed to do. It is equally likely that Hess was just exhibiting the early stages of the psychiatric disorder that later became full-blown.

It may be worth mentioning that a peace-feeler was made via Mussolini (neutral at the time) during the leadup to the Dunkirk crisis. It got nowhere, as the successful evacuation gave Churchill's government enough strength to remain in power.

I agree, the version I was taught was the Hess stole the Bf-110 and Hitler became really pissed off when he heard that Hess had stolen a plane and tried to barter for peace. I can't be sure that this is true though, and that Hitler didn't publicly deny responsibility because it failed and would make him look weak. We won't know until the papers are released, if then...

[TinCow]

Personally, I do not believe that Hess was operating in any official capacity. Hitler began to disown him within hours of the event, long before it was known what the official British reaction would be. While the general idea of spreading false stories to cover Hitler's reputation in the event that Hess failed is plausible, it doesn't seem to add up in the timeline. Hitler was immediately saying that Hess was delusional, mentally unstable, and operating without orders. This was well before the Churchill government even met to discuss the situation. That 'excuse' is so damning that it would likely have destroyed Hess' credibility as a diplomat and thus would have been a very bad cover story. If it had indeed been an official diplomatic mission, a far more likely story would have been total silence on the part of Germany, with the cover story of insanity only coming out after it became apparent that the UK would not agree to negotiations. That would have been at least 1 to 2 days after Hitler began to spread the word of his insanity.

Top it off with the fact that Hess had a full blown psychiatric disorder only a few years later, and the evidence seems to indicate to me that he was not operating in any official capacity. I suspect he was either trying to defect or had delusions that he could somehow end the war due to his mental illness.

If Germany had really wanted to negotiate a peace at that point in the war, they would have gone through diplomatic channels in Portugal or Switzerland. They would never have bothered with this Keystone Cops kind of operation.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Personally, I do not believe that Hess was operating in any official capacity. Hitler began to disown him within hours of the event, long before it was known what the official British reaction would be. While the general idea of spreading false stories to cover Hitler's reputation in the event that Hess failed is plausible, it doesn't seem to add up in the timeline. Hitler was immediately saying that Hess was delusional, mentally unstable, and operating without orders. This was well before the Churchill government even met to discuss the situation. That 'excuse' is so damning that it would likely have destroyed Hess' credibility as a diplomat and thus would have been a very bad cover story. If it had indeed been an official diplomatic mission, a far more likely story would have been total silence on the part of Germany, with the cover story of insanity only coming out after it became apparent that the UK would not agree to negotiations. That would have been at least 1 to 2 days after Hitler began to spread the word of his insanity.

Top it off with the fact that Hess had a full blown psychiatric disorder only a few years later, and the evidence seems to indicate to me that he was not operating in any official capacity. I suspect he was either trying to defect or had delusions that he could somehow end the war due to his mental illness.

If Germany had really wanted to negotiate a peace at that point in the war, they would have gone through diplomatic channels in Portugal or Switzerland. They would never have bothered with this Keystone Cops kind of operation.

I tend to agree with that version of the story too. Somehow sending a guy in a Bf-110 across the channel and having him parachute down onto British soil doesn't seem like the most reliable plan, especially since they were at war and the plane was a fairly distinctive German model with German markings that could have been easily shot down had it encountered British patrols.