Conscript Fathers, Roma has called for you!

[Long lost Caesar]

First senate meeting

Head North-0

Head South, capture Taras-14

No march-1










First off...
Alright lads, i know it's been a while since i've posted here, but now im back to playing EB (or i will be on monday after i get some stuff sorted out) and i've decided to try and give things a twist. I want YOU to help me take over Europe, and the rest of the world....

How it works
All of you are Senators, and I carry out your orders. For this first turn I'll let the debate last until Wednesday, but until then I want all of you to put forward ideas for our first move. If people put forward similar ideas or agree with each other to follow a certain plan, then I'll play by that strategy until it is finished, or we decide to alter our aims. Ideally we should have two or three days between each 'Senate Meeting,' in which time I'll do my best to fulfill your orders.

Consuls
Later in the game (if it has enough participants) we can assign certain people to be the Consuls of provinces for a term (1-3 Senate meetings) the Consul will have power over his province, and he will work with the Senate to decide what happens next. Like I said, this is for much later in the game, and rules will have to change for it.

Ground rules
Personally I never play by a strict set of rules, but if any of you have any suggestions I'll play how you tell me to. Post rules up here and we'll decide.

272 BC-First turn and beyond
Roma's armies are ready for battle, and our economy is growing. Where should we go? Should we conquer the southern low-lands of Italia and drive the hated Epeiros into the sea? Or head north into the rocky peninsula and challenge the fearsome barbarians? East into Hellas? Or West into Africa? Senators! Roma has called...answer the call of duty!
On Wednesday I'll come back and decide which plan I'll play by.

[Poulp']

It has been reported by our diplomats that the Gauls have internal strife right now, that should keep them busy for the moment.
There's a more direct threat to Rome, a threat standing in our back; that is Pyrrhus of Epiros himself. He has assembled a huge army and what's more, they are ready to march anytime.
The senate should send a full legion, no less to oppose him. And we should muster some more light troops, so as to teach his elephants to fear our javelins and his phalanxes our slings.
Our aim should be to achieve complete control of the south, and Pyrrhus is the only one standing in our way.
Let our consul face that great threat and receive a greater glory.

[Chirurgeon]

I agree with the above poster...Pyrrus thinks he is alexander but he must be taught a severe lesson in humility. I say gather the standards of Rome against Epirus! Expel these usurpers from our peninsula.

[Wolfman]

I third this notion by the most illustrious Senator Poulp'. But do not forget Roma's economy must remain stable. I woulld suggest sending a representative of S.P.Q.R. to the Gallic settlement of Mediolanium to the north to request trade rights.

P.S. Is a PBM?

[CaesarAugustus]

I agree with the Senators who have spoken so far. Italia is our land, and not only should Pyrrhus and his Greeks be thrown out like the low-born raptores they are, but every Greek in Italia should be put to the sword. If and when the legion captures Taras, we should not hesitate to exterminate every person in the city.

P.S In additon, I would also like to nominate Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio for command of the Southern legion. He seems to have an aptitude for command and will serve Roma well against these effeminate Greeks and their slave-driver Pyrrhus.

P.P.S. If there are enough people partcipating to have Consuls, will they be able to use a Consular veto?

[Elminster12]

Run the nasty Greeks into the Adriatic. For the glory of Roma, Italia must be ours, though I would be wary of those filthy Gaullic barbarians, myself. Can't trust 'em as far as you can throw them. I think it is more important that we align ourselves withe Makedonians. The enemy of our enemy is our friend, naturally...

[madmatg]

i think the irradication of the greeks may be a bit rash. They have indeed attempted to hold us down but let us not forget the trade that can be gained in the short run by gaining trade rights with the Makedonians and Greeks. I think if we exterminate the greeks these people may become rather aggitated and refuse the trade rights. Whereas they will eventually be expected to bow the knee to us, for now we need $$ to fund our legions advances. Also it may be in our interests to get friendly with the epirotes after taking back italia as i have some sources that tell me the Makedonians may be on the move, and funding their war against the makedonians may be the simplest way to keep these people in check until we make or way east. I also want to second Wolfman's proposal to get trade rights with the gauls. thank you for granting me the honor of speaking to you the esteemed council.

[CaesarAugustus]

i think the irradication of the greeks may be a bit rash. They have indeed attempted to hold us down but let us not forget the trade that can be gained in the short run by gaining trade rights with the Makedonians and Greeks. I think if we exterminate the greeks these people may become rather aggitated and refuse the trade rights. Whereas they will eventually be expected to bow the knee to us, for now we need $$ to fund our legions advances. Also it may be in our interests to get friendly with the epirotes after taking back italia as i have some sources that tell me the Makedonians may be on the move, and funding their war against the makedonians may be the simplest way to keep these people in check until we make or way east. thank you for granting me the honor of speaking to you the esteemed council

I must disagree, Senator madmatg. The thought of foreigners living so close to Roma is deeply disturbing. They will spread their strange and inferior customs, ideas, and vices to our honest and harworking citizens. They must be removed from the land that is rightfully ours if our culture is to flourish in Italia. If the city is exterminated, we can attract good Roman citizens to repopulate the province by promising low taxes. We can also settle troops and their families there when we choose to disband the legion, and soon we will see the economy begin to flourish.

As for trade, if the Greeks wish to refuse us then that is their problem. We have plenty of other options, such as the gauls across the Alps (and I must stress across the Alps, we do not want to encourage or help these Cisalpine Gauls in any way, since they are squatting on land which should be rightfully ours)and the people of Carthago. The Senate treasury can do without the Greek's gold if we seek trade with others and spend wisely.

We must also bide our time and see how the Epirotes fare in their war against Makedonia before openly backing them. I do not like the idea of supporting our enemy overseas, incase one day he decides once again to turn West and try to take back his Italian holdings. However, the idea of a powerful and expanding Macedonia is evn more didturbing, so I second your motion to make peace with Pyrrhus after he has been expelled from Italia.

[TWFanatic]

I applaud many of the propositions set forth so far, and have taken the liberty of summarizing them and adding a few of my own...

1.Disband our useless and expensive fleet and raise taxes to fund our armies. Train accensi as a garrison force to compliment our governors.

2.Sue for peace with the Aedui and request trade rights.

3.Gather all of our forces in Arpi under the command of Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio. I realize that he has, in the past, been criticized for a lack of ethics in governorship and war, but this only makes him all the more suited for the dark task I will in a few moments propose he undertake...

4.March on Tarentum. I do not fear Pyrrhus himself at the moment, for our legions taught him a bloody lesson when we drove him out of Italia but a few years ago. His wars with the Macedonians will keep his armies occupied for now. Tarentum, however, still remains a threat and obstacle to our ultimate goal - the annexation of peninsular Italia.

5.Put the Tarentines to the sword. This act will not only display our willingness to annihilate all who defy the might of Rome, but will fill our treasures with much needed gold. In addition, it will ensure the rebellious people do not attempt an uprising in the near future, which is certain lest we keep a large garrison. No, Senator Gracchus, we do not need to distribute Viagra among the populace to ensure its successful recovery. The Tarentines are a very fertile people...they will survive and multiply very quickly. They will fill our treasury with tariffs thanks to their numerous merchants and trade fleets.

6.I beg to differ in opinion with Senator Elminster, whom I feel is overly concerned with the Northern Gauls and Eastern Epirotes. Makedonia is by no means fond of us, and Antigonus is as treacherous as Pyrrhus is rash. I propose we send a diplomat to Epiros and make peace with Pyrrhus. I realize many of you may have a strong sentiment of hate toward these despicable people; this is understandable. Nevertheless, we must overcome this boundary for the sake of Roma. Peace and the right to trade with our eastern neighbor is essential for commerce. I do propose that we make contact with the other people of the Helles as well, and request permission to trade with them as well.

As for the Celts to our north, they pose no immediate threat. As I have mentioned before, the East is troubled with wars of their own, and not even the biggest fool in the whole of the Helles would have ambitions to invade Italia after the beating we inflicted on Pyrrhus. Thus, it is not the north or east that I fear, but the south and west...

After our work in Tarentum is done, we may debate over our future military operations. For now, I believe I have said enough. Who is with me?

[madmatg]

fellow Senators hear me,

Caeser i agree that we should wait to support the epirotes or KH but i was speaking to the point of our extermination of their populace in Southern Italia. With the extermination of their populace t may become impossible for them to even think about accepting our gold if, and i think when, they will need it to fight the makedonians.

I do continue my support for showing mercy to the greeks in southern Italia, as (1) extending the olive branch to these people WILL make the greeks more receptive to our diplomatic efforts, and getting money early will allow us to begin investing that money in better trading facilities and the faster we get these trade facilities functioning the more money we will make in the long run. (2)We will need these southern cities functioning at high population quickly (in case the carthiginians decide to start expanding in sicily), and true romans will go where they are needed for the good of Roma, so we have no need to worry about roman citizens not moving south because of some greeks. (3)These greeks although hard-headed do have their logic, and when they see the way we govern and realize that our destiny is to rule the world i believe they will not stay unhappy with us as their new rulers for too long. And will more quickly become productive Roman citizens than we would be able to produce(physically) new romans.

i would also like to make a proposal for the train and send some strategic units(diplomats or spies or assassins) to the greek peninsula to keep an eye on things as well as to the gallic lands to the north for the same reason. I do not think i need to explain this to anyone as money spent on knowledge now can save us 3-fold or even 4-fold the money and populace we will have to spend later if we allow a government to become too much of a power.(this post was posted at the same time TWC was typing so it is not a response to his post)

[madmatg]

TWC's point on the money we could gain from exterminating the populace is a tempting proposal but i believe by exterminating the greeks there we will be unable to gain trade rights with any greek peoples west of turkey, i believe by simply enslaving the people who defy us we can acheive the goal of civil stability with minimal garrison, whereas the money gained from looting will be less, the money gained from the trade of the city with bigger populace and the money from the greeks who will most likely trade with us will lead to bigger economic boosts in the long run

[Poulp']

I disagree with senator TWFanatic on one point; we should not gather our forces in Arpi. We would be trapped within its walls if Pyrrhus decides to siege it.
However, there are a lot of rolling hills south of Arpi where we could wait for his army. It would serve a double purpose; if Pyrrhus is enticed to attack us, we could fight on the higher ground and rain death upon his phalanxes before the clash. If he decides to siege Arpi, our legion would still have the choice to relieve the city, or directly aim for his base in the south.
That way, all options are open to us.
I agree with the appointement of Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio as consul though.

Now, over the fate of the tarentine population, I believe its fate rests on the state of our war chest. If it is empty, then we should fill it back at their expense.
Still, there is in the city a large number of skilled craftmen; though they are greek, it would be a shame to waste their skill. We could put it to good use in our own cities by putting them into slavery.
I am strongly against a simple occupation, Roma suffered much from them in the past and showing mercy to them would send the wrong kind of message.
We have to show the greeks that we mean business; Southern Italy should be turned to roman ways as fast as possible.

[Long lost Caesar]

Im glad to see that the Senate House has so many eager politicians in its walls, and I hope that you will all continue to serve Roma as you do now.
It seems to me that (so far) the general vote is to march to and conquer southern italia. im not saying this is the final verdict, but im letting all know this is so likely to be our plan.
Another point I would like to put forward: what should be done with construction, taxation etc? Should the Senators decide what happens with it, or would it simply be easier for me to decide? I will keep reports coming in once the campaign begins, but i thought it would be best to consult you, the Senators of our City, and see what you decide. I am, and will forever remain, your loyal general.

[alatar]

Scipio as Legate of the Roman legion?
Very well, but the tribunes of the plebs say they wish Cotta to be his Milatary Tribune, and master of Horse.

Why should we exterminate the greeks? A foolish idea, we should sell them all into slavery, and then strip all the greek buildings, much more prohitable then killing them all.

And also, the raising of a second full legion should be made.

(People keep calling the leader of a legion a Consul, Legate or Imperator makes more sence)

[NightStar]

Senatores! Senatores!

What is all this talk of war? Let us rather build beautiful forums, and baths...yes luxurious bathouses. I say let us sue for peace on every front, make trade agreements, fill our coffers, build an arena and have some games.

I am sure that we can coexist with the Epeirots, who knows if we gather enough mnai we might even buy Tarentum from them. Surely talents of gold would help them in their war against the Makedonians. A lots of gold will do them more good than some backwater town.

Rhegium on the other hand has affiliation with no one, no great power that holds a protective hand over them, maybe we should extend them ours?

I propose we send our legions to Rhegium, who should lead them I do not care, so long it isn't me. If the good people of Rhegium do not open the gates and welcome us with flowers and joyful smiles I suggest we sell them into slavery. I might need some new slaves.

Yes and let's not forget to tax the plebs to the bone, or else they will squander their mnai on meeningless things. And after all we'll need it.

We should starting building better markets, harbours, roads and let the trade florish.

[Karo]

Senators why do we need to fear Pyrrhus, who is far away busy fighting the macedonians, I say conquer Italia than we shall talk about peace with them. And we need to exterminate the greeks to set an example how we deal with people who defy the will of rome. after the peninsula is ours we can talk abut peace and coexistence but before that the only thing we need to hear is how the archive victory. who is with me?

[TWFanatic]

Wise words, Senator Karo.

Senator Madmatg, there is no C in my name. More importantly, Pyrrhus will agree to peace and trade rights if we exterminate the people of Tarentum, of this I assure you. I shall do my victory jig in your face after I am proven right...

Now normally I would agree with you. The long-term economic consequences of such butchery would outweigh the short-term gain. But the Tarentines are not a normal people. They breed like snails, and I assure you that it will not take long for the streets to again be backed by 8 am every morning. Besides...we desperately need the mnaii to start a building program and train more men.

Senators! We need bullion for the sake of maintaining our army and constructing buildings of importance for Roma and her allies. Of this, few will disagree. Our opinions deviate over how we should do this.

If we do conquer Italia, I promise an instantaneous massive boost to our treasury. Then we can follow the noble pursuits of Senator Night, with our borders secured and peace achieved.

I have another proposition: Send our army to Capua. There we can supply them with superior arms & armor. All except the triarii should receive these. My reason for excluding them is simple - the cost of upgrading their armor is nearly 9 times more than doing so for the principes. Too damn expensive!

I object to the proposition of Senator Poulp that we rally our army south of Arpi. It would be of benefit to garrison the city with a large force and Consul Scipio for a time, however. I have no fear whatsoever of being attacked, we far outnumber the Tarentines and have superior infantry. It would be impossible for them to defeat us in the open field.

Regarding construction...I believe we should upgrade the Military Industrial Complex in Roma. We have need of extraodinarii cavalry, which cannot be trained without superior horse breeders.

And again, I propose training accensi as a garrison force. It costs less to maintain them than any other force we have.

Do my fellow senators agree?

_________________________________________
I think it's interesting to see people's different styles of gameplay. Unsurprisingly, everyone thinks theirs is the best.

[We shall fwee...Wodewick]

Senators, we must strike south at the Taras and enslave all the populace who do not work in the important industries of trade and oil. With these greeks subdued in my (fairly run for the community) vineyard, we can take likewise action with Rhegion. We must bring slaves to the deveoped and happier land of central Italy where keeping large populations in check will be much easier than Taras. Who knows, maybe some enterprising Plebs with my help will settle in the south.

Also, we must not as the senator Nightstar suggests, tax the plebs into the ground. They ARE the Repbulic and should not be beaten by some of the greedy senators who want not good for Rome, but their coffers and status.

Down with the optimates!(I will say this every speech like Cato and Carthage)


PS just an Idea from a similar thread for RTR, could we have names for our characters which we write in our signature so people know. for example, mine was Marcvs Ativs Balbvs. so you can now call be that or Senator Balbvs or Marcvs Ativs rather than senator we shall fwee....wodewick.

[Long lost Caesar]

good point. from now on sign off your posts with a roman name of your choosing. personally i cant think of one, but after a few google searches im sure i can compose myself a roman name. back to the matter at hand senators!

[Jesus_saves]

Senators, we must strike south at the Taras and enslave all the populace who do not work in the important industries of trade and oil. With these greeks subdued in my (fairly run for the community) vineyard, we can take likewise action with Rhegion. We must bring slaves to the deveoped and happier land of central Italy where keeping large populations in check will be much easier than Taras. Who knows, maybe some enterprising Plebs with my help will settle in the south.

I will second this plan with a slight modification; It will take years to set up a fully operational government and I would like to take Rhegion before our phoenician friends in Sicilia get too greedy. So I would like to propose the following:

I.We combine our military force in to a singular legion, led by senator Balsio, and tribuned by senator Cotta.
II. We a besiege Tarentum as soon as possible. Not entering the City unless Attacked or a surrender is made.(IE: Don't build any siege Equipment)
III. While besieging Tarentum we should build a force of rorarii consisting of 3-4 units
IV. Once The city is ours we remove the legion and use the rorarii as a garrison. and assault Rhegium.
V. We disband our fleet as it's not adequately equipped for war or transport.

Also, we must not as the senator Nightstar suggests, tax the plebs into the ground. They ARE the Repbulic and should not be beaten by some of the greedy senators who want not good for Rome, but their coffers and status.

Whilst I Agree with what you say about the plebs, Are we the senate not a part of the republic, are we not the one who build thier Bath houses, their roads, THEIR HOMES?!? I say we tax them according to how happy they are with our government.

Down with the optimates!(I will say this every speech like Cato and Carthage)

Let's not get ahead of our selves senator.

PS just an Idea from a similar thread for RTR, could we have names for our characters which we write in our signature so people know. for example, mine was Marcvs Ativs Balbvs. so you can now call be that or Senator Balbvs or Marcvs Ativs rather than senator we shall fwee....wodewick.

(I think this is a good later on when the family tree is larger)
(Also What Mods are we using?)

[CaesarAugustus]

Regarding construction...I believe we should upgrade the Military Industrial Complex in Roma. We have need of extraodinarii cavalry, which cannot be trained without superior horse breeders.

And again, I propose training accensi as a garrison force. It costs less to maintain them than any other force we have.

Do my fellow senators agree?

I would suggest using leves as a garrison instead of accensi. Although they do cost a bit more, the unit is much larger and is still very cheap, and they will defend the city better in the event of a surprise attack.

I agree that we should upgrade the MIC of Roma. I would also suggest the we lower Roma's tax rate to "Low". Yes, this will create a defecit but it can be overcome by taxing the people of the other four cities into the ground, and Roma will bebefit from the rapidly increasing population and happiness. We can then set the tax rate back to Normal or High once Roma reaches the next level of settlement, and we will be pleasantly surprised that we have many more plebs to tax.


(I dont suppose I can sign myself Caesar Avgvstvs, can I? Unless nobody in the Senate objects to the title?)

[alatar]

Why should we slaughter the greeks? It makes more sence to enslave them.

Scipio and Cotta would make a formidable legion (the boy Cotta is exceptionally talented).

The Celts to our north will not trouble us, and if we quickly crush Taras, and unite southern italy, we will be at lessiure to recrit a further two legions.

Senatore Drussivs Tiberivs Claudivs.

[TWFanatic]

This is going to take forever.

Senator Fanatic has been assassinated.

[madmatg]

I must humbly apologize to you senator TW as i have been butchering your name in my ignorance. You should not leave our lovely debate as this first turn will most definitely take the most time and effort to get done as we start anew, wait until the first few season are done before running away please!

Also i agree with the senators who have proposed the enslavement of the greeks in the south, as well as the fleets disbandment, and the training of levees to be sent south to garrison our cities.

I believe our newer cities should shoulder the larger % burden of our taxes, as our republic grows we can shift this out to whatever outlying provinces are newest.

Mattevs Graccvs

[Karo]

Because we need to set an example for our enemy that war with us is not their best intrest.

And with two legions we have enough we will need the extra money to build our infrastructure. We need to earn enough internal as we do with foreigeners.

And I agree the celts are not a thread for now, we need to attack Southren-Italy and anax it and than we can talk about future wars with someone else.

Lucius Armenicus Julius

[TWFanatic]

*jumps out of casket*
Sorry, but I just don't have the time.
*jumps back in casket*

[Jesus_saves]

Because we need to set an example for our enemy that war with us is not their best intrest.

And with two legions we have enough we will need the extra money to build our infrastructure. We need to earn enough internal as we do with foreigeners.

And I agree the celts are not a thread for now, we need to attack Southren-Italy and anax it and than we can talk about future wars with someone else.

Lucius Armenicus Julius

Let's be reasonable here senator! the Greeks are a civilized people! if we need to make an example of some one then let us do so to the savages in the north.

I'd also I like to propose making a trade agreement with Macedon and Athens.

-Lucius Cassius Aurelius

[Poulp']

This is going to take forever.

Senator Fanatic has been assassinated.

console_command kill_character led to CTD
train another assassin and try again next turn

[Jesus_saves]

This is going to take forever.
.

Yeah, I think we should start writing bills at this point all the talking's going to get us no where.

[CaesarAugustus]

Fellow Senators, we keep talking about rasing and sending 'legions', but we do not say how many men each legion should have! I propose that each legions raised should be standardised to no less than XV units, with at least III units of Hastati, III Principes, and II Triarii to provide the fighting core.

OOC: This is kind of confusing, perhaps Long lost Caesar could edit his first post with all of the propositions so far and the number of votes, like the Council of Koinon Hellenon?

~Gaius Octavius Magnus