Guard Mode

[Callicles]

@ TWFanatic

Can you show us/ tell us what you mean by testing it? My experience has been that hoplites fight better in guard mode. Now, this could be just my misconception, but a lot of people share it. In fact, if I recall correctly, the EB team recommends using "guard" for hoplites.

So, Its not that I am saying you are wrong, its just that I'd be shocked if what you say turns out to be the case.

[Laman]

Probably also depends on what they are supposed to do. Having a bunch of low-level spearmen in guard mode seems to let them survive longer, but maybe won't be able to deal as much damage as they otherwise could, but since their purpose is to hold the enemy in position while other units move to attack the enemy in the flanks and/or from behind, it is a fair exchange. However guard mode is not such a good idea for flanking units, since you want them to kill the enemy as quickly as they can, before they can turn around.

[TWFanatic]

By testing, I mean I go online with a friend and we charge the same units at each other, one in guard mode and one not in guard mode. We did this over and over again. The unit not in guard mode always won, 100% of the time.

Don't get me wrong, there are instances when it is useful. In close combat melee, however, the units in guard mode stand there and get slaughtered while killing very few of the enemy. Rather than engaging the whole force at one time, they send a few men forward at a time while the rest stand in a pretty but useless formation.

This is why I gave hoplites the short_pike - they now fight in a pretty formation without guard mode. That means their ENTIRE force engages the enemy and pushes them back, like hoplites really did.

[johnhughthom]

Surely part of guard mode is that they stand in place and hold a position, charging them while in guard mode is not a good idea.

[NightStar]

I agree, charging units in guard mode often makes them behave bizzarely. Like holding formation while figthing when it's not practical at all.

Standing in place when the enemy charges your front while you are in guard mode works much better.

[NeoSpartan]

Let me give u fellas some guidelines I've come up with regarding "Guard Mode":

1-Hoplites last WAY longer in Guard Mode. HOWEVER, make sure that they face the right direction, and don't expect them to kill the enemy so fast. This is best use to HOLD a line, plug a hole in the phalanks, and brace for a cavalry charge.
--If ur flanking with ur hoplites, and if you want them to kill fast then DON'T put them in Guard Mode.
--Hoplites have a very high mass so they won't get pushed back.

2-Other Spear units behave the same way as hoplites when in guard mode (read above). HOWEVER, a lot of them do not have the high mass hoplites have so they may get pushed back.

3-Spear Levies are generaly more effective in Guard mode simply because they won't rout as fast. And have the same rules apply to them (read pt # 1)

4-Sword Units are a little trickier. In guard mode they will last longer BUT they will kill a lot less, so much so that u have to be more careful when u choose to have them in Guard mode or not. The thing is their weapons have a short reach so unless the enemy gets close they won't do jack.
--Another thing to watch out for, if ur facing Spear units in Guard vs Sword units in Guard, the spear tends to win that battle, even if it is an inferior spear unit.
Again if u want to hold a center or delay the enemy have them in Gaurd.

5-Cavarly is Gaurd mode is just plain stupid. Unless its ur general in guard mode since you don't want him to get killed.

6-Charging in Guard mode is not a good idea because you will only have 1 or 2 lines charge while the others stay behind and slowly move forward.

[TWFanatic]

On one test we did alternate charges...one of us charges while the other stands still. Guard mode was still inferior. However, like I said before, it does have its uses. And like many have said already, if you want to hold a solid line that won't break formation and pursue an enemy if they pull back, then guard mode is what you're looking for. In general though, units fight worse in guard mode. Therefore its advantages are tactical, and it should not be used in a simple slugfest, but has a use in an open battlefield.

Historically, one of the most deadly weapons of the phalanx was its charge. Thus, I find it rather annoying if I can't charge with my hoplites. This is another reason I gave them the short_pike attribute.

Good list, NeoSpartan.