Deploying in sieges...

[Soulflame]

I really need this off my chest... since it's been bugging me forever.

Does anybody else take lots of time to position their troops in sieges? I really dislike sieges for that... there is so little room in the streets that it's really hard to get stuff right behind the gate and all.

And that's just playing on 'normal' size... I can't even imagine how it would be with even larger unit sizes.

Is this just me? Do people have tips for me on how to spend less time position in sieges? Or is this just one of the annoying things in Med2 that we just have to live with?

[Galain_Ironhide]

I'm assuming that you mean when you are defending a city.

Yeh, it can be a pain in the butt. Especially placing your Trebuchet's and catapaults because in most places they wont deploy (and sometimes getting them to fire is the next trick - line of sight blocked). With the troops that I don't deploy on the wall, I generally place them right up against the wall on the ground, so then they are impervious to missle attack, (just remember to move them if they are attacking with cat's or treb's) I then have those units ready at my disposal should the enemy come crashing through my gate or something. Any others such as cav I normally have placed in a back street some where, so they are safe from missile fire but close enough to come to the aid of my foot soldiers.

To add to Soulflames question, if you have any hints for setting up your trebs and catapaults inside the wall, add to this post!

Good post Soulflame.!

[TheLastPrivate]

Try to find a wall that is diagonal to the gateway section, and place the trebuchet right next to the wall. It won't be able to fire over the wall, but the distance between it and the gateway will give it enough distance for its shots to arch over.

However, if you have mortars than thats what you should have in your cities.

[Soulflame]

Yeah sorry, I meant defending in a siege.
Funny enough, I actually usually *want* my enemy to break trough my gate, since my preferred tactic is to place tough infantry in a circle (or as close as I can) behind it, with one opening where I repeatedly smash my cavalry in.
Only in most sieges that setup takes forever to make since it needs to be precise or you'll get trouble, for example if your line is too thin they will run through it.

catapults I only use when I am in a really bad position (aka Mongol Invasion and the like) and I try to place them so they have a clear shot at the gate. When the enemy runs through and gets into a giant mass which I try to contain, I lob a few boulders in there... lots of kills (though usually also your own guys get hits, so you won't get this going long).
But if I'm not seriously outnumbered I will put my catapults away because they then do more harm then good.

I also didn't know the wall could shield you from arrow arcs if you stand close to them. I thought Med2 didn't account for the walls being in the trajectory that way... at least in my experience some units would still get hit while being right behind the wall.

[hoom]

The M2TW engine seems to be harder to get units to deploy properly inside a city than the RTW one.
Though, generally you can place properly after starting the battle, which is a bit odd

[Daveybaby]

I also didn't know the wall could shield you from arrow arcs if you stand close to them. I thought Med2 didn't account for the walls being in the trajectory that way... at least in my experience some units would still get hit while being right behind the wall.

They can actually still hit you, but the enemy archers need to be right next to the wall (on the other side, of course - if theyre on the same side theyre not going to have much of a problem hitting you) for this to happen.

And because the trajectory is nearly vertical, they are firing with much reduced accuracy and (i believe) much less damage than a direct line of fire would produce. Also crossbows become virtually useless when fired in an arc. Instead of having a steel bolt fired through your chest its like having a stick fall on your head.

[Slug For A Butt]

I completeley agree with Hoom.
I don't try to position my units exactly where I want them during deployment, you just can't do it. I place them in the right area and then reposition them after the deployment phase as they go just where you want them then.
And Soulflame, I use that tactic too sometimes. Bang a couple of worthless units near the gate to hold up the attackers just long enough for the flaming cats to do some serious damage. Then charge in from the sides with some shock troops to hopefully start a rout.

[Rozanov]

One minor point - if the enemy has siege artillery they sometimes target the gate even if they have rams and the shots can kill troops standing too close behind the gate.

[Slaists]

Yeah sorry, I meant defending in a siege.
Funny enough, I actually usually *want* my enemy to break trough my gate, since my preferred tactic is to place tough infantry in a circle (or as close as I can) behind it, with one opening where I repeatedly smash my cavalry in.
Only in most sieges that setup takes forever to make since it needs to be precise or you'll get trouble, for example if your line is too thin they will run through it.

catapults I only use when I am in a really bad position (aka Mongol Invasion and the like) and I try to place them so they have a clear shot at the gate. When the enemy runs through and gets into a giant mass which I try to contain, I lob a few boulders in there... lots of kills (though usually also your own guys get hits, so you won't get this going long).
But if I'm not seriously outnumbered I will put my catapults away because they then do more harm then good.

I also didn't know the wall could shield you from arrow arcs if you stand close to them. I thought Med2 didn't account for the walls being in the trajectory that way... at least in my experience some units would still get hit while being right behind the wall.

well, always keep a unit or two of some sort of cheap cavalry in a city. that will allow you to destroy those pesky artillery pieces (the AI frequently tends to try to destroy the gateway first with its artillery now... i guess, to disable the boiling oil) the AI brings and force it to use it's rams. after destroying artillery, the cavalry can be used to delay other seige equipment (towers, ladders) so the ram is the first to make it to the wall (take your archers off fire missiles). voila: you've got the whole AI gang charging through the gate with your towers and gateway intact...

as to the deployment inside, i've found that "open V" shape diagonal deployment near the gate works best, something like this.

gate
\ /


optional ballista [trebuchet, catapult]

frequently you just need a couple strong spear or pike units to do the job. the rest can be peasants/peasant archers placed on the nearby walls or backing up the elite units in the street to create extra feeling of overwhelming mass at the choke point. an optional ballista, catapult, trebuchet or gunpowder artillery can be placed in the street a bit further away from the gate. ballista or gunpowder artillery (such as ribault) are preferrable since they are more accurate: so, less chance of hitting your own men. alternatively, one might use a unit of charge-heavy cavalry instead of the artillery. just beware: using the default cavalry charge distance (45) will make their charges weak. reducing the charge distance to 35 allows full cavalry charges even in city streets.

on a side note, playing the Teutonic Order, clergy-men placed in the gatehouse seem to do wonders for the morale of the men deployed in the "V" shape near the gate.

[Philbert]

What I notice, and annoys me to no end, is that you can only deploy troops during pre-battle deployment, when your click is on a paved street:
When you do click-draaag-release to place and form your troops, the first click should be on a street. However, the 'release' can be on grass or mud.

As a result, when you try to make a bucket around a gate, you have no trouble placing your troops on the right side of the gate (since your 'release' ends on the grass but your 'click' is on the street) but on the left side you need to place your troops on the street, and rush them to their proper spot immediately when the battle begins. For some reason, during battle you can.



Also, I find it too difficult to properly form troops (especially spearmen) when fighting in the streets of the city. It often happens that you want a troop of spearmen to form up to block a complete street, but if the street has grass on both sides, the game won't allow you to deploy them there but forces you to deploy them narrowly only on the street. This is why I do a lot of pausing during city battles.

[Spajus]

While I usually play on vh/vh, I'm a bit of a novice in seiges. I tend tactically to be prepared for seiges, and so rarely let the enemy assault the walls. I either counter-attack or sally.

Perhaps you guys can therefore help - I noticed several mentions of buckets and V's around the gates, which I remember from MTW1, and Rome.

However, my one experience of a seige in MTW2, I got caught with my pants down, so to speak, and ended up fighting with around 10 spanish Militia-spear units against a mixed stack of French.

They blew down 4 sections of wall, the gates, and most of the towers.

I took a gamble, and instead of trying to form "v"s at each of the breaches, I double-stacked the spears. I literally deployed them on-top of each other, facing into the breach. This seemed ridiculously succesful.

The enemy weren't able to get the usual levels of penetration which I've seen against a single holding unit, and being spears, they stoically stood there giving it some. The general then sallied out the main gates, and charged the enemy in the back, which caused no end of panic.

As I remember, the French were a general arms stack, including spears, foot knights, archers and calvalry.

Anyone else ever tried this?

[Rozanov]

double-stacking spears - pretty much the default setting for my defences. Indeed I'll sometimes triple-stack them, pikes, spears and halberds.

I keep sword, horse and general units back though and use them only when the attackers are flagging.