Quick update (Updated July 28th!)

[christof139]

I have... other plans for Indonesia. *grim laugh*

Here's a hint for Timnar: it's a fusion of two names, one historical, one fictional.

Good stuff on Mastodons, it's because of their diet & the American connection that I place them in the Pictish Wilderness.



Yup, I deduce that Howard drew upon the Sabaeans and Nabateans for Sabatea. A shame he never elaborated more on this city and its "nighted domes".



Amazingly, the map's still a bit of a work-in-progress. More talking with my head scholar has convinced me to make a few amendments, particularly in the Iranistan area, which will be a very important area of the map for the secret faction. But it's more or less ironed out.

Timnar, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??? Tamerlane + Tibet??? I don't know. I guess I'll have to wait.
Narwhales in there?? Narvik in Norway??

Yeah, didn't Howard mention Mastodons or similar in the Pictish Lands or no??

Iran(istan) needs to be ironed out, as do a few other places and things/matters on the planet. I think the Iranistanians will do this themselves.

OT: I just upgraded from an excellent 22" LCD monitor to a 24" and my poor eyeballs are bugging/bulging/burning out and stretching horizontally methinks from all the color and brightness and size even though I knocked 10-20% off the Gamma, Brightness and Contrast, but it does look good. I have to play a RTW or MTW 1 or 2 mod/fame to see how it looks. I wear bifocals now and this is a trip.

Take your time - Makessss it goodsss Precioussss. (great voice and acting in the movie for Gollum the 3rd Age Schizoid Proto-Hobbit, from Pink Floyd; 21st Century Schizoid Man) as we all will still be around for the finished product.

Good luck, Chris-toe-fur

[Taranaich]

Timnar, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??? Tamerlane + Tibet??? I don't know. I guess I'll have to wait.
Narwhales in there?? Narvik in Norway??

Ok, I'll spare you the trouble: It's a sort of ancestor to Timna of Yemen, featured in the Bible, and Mnar, an ancient land spoken of by the noted historian H.P. Lovecraft. More to come soon.

Yeah, didn't Howard mention Mastodons or similar in the Pictish Lands or no??

No straight references to Pictish Mastodons that I'm aware of (I'm going through non-Hyborian tales like "Men of the Shadows" just to make sure), but given the giant pythons, sabretooths & other ancient horrors I figure it's the best place Conan could have seen a mastodon before "Red Nails". The Dark Storm Chronology, the timeline I'm using, as Conan being in the Pictish Wilderness ("Beyond the Black River" & "The Black Stranger") directly prior to "Red Nails", which is a decent enough explanation as to why he compared the dragon to a Mastodon as opposed to an elephant, since they might've been fresh in his mind.

Iran(istan) needs to be ironed out, as do a few other places and things/matters on the planet. I think the Iranistanians will do this themselves.

Iranistan is basically the most important, powerful and influential of the independent sub-factions, even in its current contracted state: if I decide to make the "Eastern Kingdoms" faction it is a part of playable, the capital would be there. Probably the best model to imagine is the Sassanid Empire with a little of the Achaemenids & Parthians thrown in : basically, the ultimate zenith of Persian culture.

All clues in the saga show that Iranistan had massive cultural influence in its neighbours: almost all nearby lands have some aspect of Iranistan culture. Howard seemed to imply a lot of back-and-forthing between Shemite and Iranistan rule in Eastern Shem and the Eastern Desert. Turan has adopted much Iranistani language into its military (Shahs etc), and the kings of both Turan and Stygia - the mightiest empires of the South and East - have Iranistani names, arguing possible intermixing or at least some cultural assimilation. Even the Hyborians worship Mitra, a god with an Iranistani name. And of course, the mightiest magical talisman of the Hyborian Age - the Heart of Ahriman - has an Iranistani name, implying an Iranistani origin. I would bet much of the "modern" Hyborian religion started in Iranistan.

So yeah, Iranistan's pretty important.

Take your time - Makessss it goodsss Precioussss.

Cheers, I hope to get the preview up tomorrow/tonight. It'll probably be a tad text-heavy, though: mostly flavour images (though maybe one or two "surprises")

[Ebonhand]

We're not worthy!

[christof139]

Ok, I'll spare you the trouble: It's a sort of ancestor to Timna of Yemen, featured in the Bible, and Mnar, an ancient land spoken of by the noted historian H.P. Lovecraft. More to come soon.



No straight references to Pictish Mastodons that I'm aware of (I'm going through non-Hyborian tales like "Men of the Shadows" just to make sure), but given the giant pythons, sabretooths & other ancient horrors I figure it's the best place Conan could have seen a mastodon before "Red Nails". The Dark Storm Chronology, the timeline I'm using, as Conan being in the Pictish Wilderness ("Beyond the Black River" & "The Black Stranger") directly prior to "Red Nails", which is a decent enough explanation as to why he compared the dragon to a Mastodon as opposed to an elephant, since they might've been fresh in his mind.



Iranistan is basically the most important, powerful and influential of the independent sub-factions, even in its current contracted state: if I decide to make the "Eastern Kingdoms" faction it is a part of playable, the capital would be there. Probably the best model to imagine is the Sassanid Empire with a little of the Achaemenids & Parthians thrown in : basically, the ultimate zenith of Persian culture.

All clues in the saga show that Iranistan had massive cultural influence in its neighbours: almost all nearby lands have some aspect of Iranistan culture. Howard seemed to imply a lot of back-and-forthing between Shemite and Iranistan rule in Eastern Shem and the Eastern Desert. Turan has adopted much Iranistani language into its military (Shahs etc), and the kings of both Turan and Stygia - the mightiest empires of the South and East - have Iranistani names, arguing possible intermixing or at least some cultural assimilation. Even the Hyborians worship Mitra, a god with an Iranistani name. And of course, the mightiest magical talisman of the Hyborian Age - the Heart of Ahriman - has an Iranistani name, implying an Iranistani origin. I would bet much of the "modern" Hyborian religion started in Iranistan.

So yeah, Iranistan's pretty important.



Cheers, I hope to get the preview up tomorrow/tonight. It'll probably be a tad text-heavy, though: mostly flavour images (though maybe one or two "surprises")

Ha ha ha!! OK, the noted 'historian' Lovecraft.

Thanx for the info. about Timnar or whatever.

Vendhya (India) was very powerful in Howard's world, more so than Iranistan I do believe. anyway, sound interesting.

I'd make a lot of the smaller states as rebels and have maybe an emerging state appear somewhere, becuase there are so many states in Howard's world.

We were gifted with 12" of snow here today and more is on the way Sunday, Monday and tuesday. Some places got 23" and 3-foot of snow here in the old USA and Canada. Quite common. Messy too and a drag to drive through. There are some good videos on YouTube showing the Great Lakes in storm conditions (they are inland seas with large waves and much wind like Vilayet(sp?)) and plenty of vids about some massive snowstorms. Here is Buffalo, NY in 1977 when a terrible storm hit. The vid is quite Arctic. These vids can put you in the mood when working on the northern states in your mod.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gRb_MuUgg
Nordlanders buried in snow. This was also a disaster for the Picts.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vaVXBn94UpM&NR=1
Picts surfing off the coast of the future Cornwall, trying to get to shore and conduct a raid on other Picts.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JiEi59gm0io
The original Picts of King Kull's time on the southern shores of the Great Nordland and Pictish Lakes.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hCTj7G...eature=related
Picts at Whitefish Point, Lake Superior, Michigan, a dangerous place where the 729ft. freighter Edmund Fitzgerald went down. Bad currents and wind, not to mention gnarly waves that can reach 35ft., maybe 50-60ft. on this little borderland Nordland and Pictish Lake.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0R3cnF...eature=related
Picts at it again surfing in the winter.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl4f3J...eature=related
Yet more and more Picts surfing.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IpFUU5...eature=related
Aesir and/or Vanir warriors.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg4MPc7YUac
Big 'uns coming up da Duluth ship channel in da Nordland winter.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-KHiKu...eature=related
Pictish Frank Zappa sings of the Yellow Snow in Pictland.

Chris

[Taranaich]

Ha ha ha!! OK, the noted 'historian' Lovecraft.

Thanx for the info. about Timnar or whatever.

No problem.

Vendhya (India) was very powerful in Howard's world, more so than Iranistan I do believe. anyway, sound interesting.

In Conan's time, Vendhya was a bigger player than Iranistan, probably just behind Turan. I don't think Iranistan was too far behind though, since the clues in "People of the Black Circle" paint the Iranistani as on similar footing to Vendhya and Ghulistan.

Unfortunately the same problem with Vendhya is the problem with Maurya in Roman era mods: too much too far off the map. Still, Vendhya's presence will be felt the further east on the map.

Fun slideshows, BTW.

[christof139]

No problem.

In Conan's time, Vendhya was a bigger player than Iranistan, probably just behind Turan. I don't think Iranistan was too far behind though, since the clues in "People of the Black Circle" paint the Iranistani as on similar footing to Vendhya and Ghulistan.

Unfortunately the same problem with Vendhya is the problem with Maurya in Roman era mods: too much too far off the map. Still, Vendhya's presence will be felt the further east on the map.

Fun slideshows, BTW.

Yeah, thanx again for the info.

Yeah, Venhya/India was/is BIG. Wasn't it also somewhat fragmented into many independent princedoms, with only a couple being VERY powerful?? Wasn't there also a fear that tribes of Iranistan would unite, and that the more powerful Vendyhans held sway over the fragmented tribes of Iranistan along their common border, but the Vendyhans were worried about the Iranistanians uniting?? Something like that I think.

Glad you have a good sense of humor and enjoyed the slideshow. Some of those Pictish and Nordlander Surfer/Raider types are a wee bit addled methinks. At least they like to get wet.

When you finish your mod it will become a classic.

Happy New Year!!!!

Chris

PS: Some of those Picts are more Irish than you think!!!

[christof139]

Some more interesting views of Nordland and Pictland through a crystal seeing-stone. About 8F or -13.33C here now, still not nearly as cold as 0F (-17.77C) to -50F (-45.55C) or so:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xheqV0...eature=related
Pictish Shaman's Lake House. Note the much larger waves farther out in the lake and look at the uneveness of the horizon. No Picts out fishing today.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=87pKV2...eature=related
One 5 to 8-foot wave right behind the other on a bay in Lake Ontario. These waves pound the Pict canoes and any other boats and ships to pieces, tis why you don't see any Picts or anyone or anything else on the lake ATM. Further out in the lake the waves are much bigger. Note the Evil Pictish Shaman's Tower belching smoke in the distance, or is that a Hyperborean Wizard's Tower??

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NjrB03...eature=related
More of the same. Look at the horizon.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AOpuhG...eature=related
Pictish Shaman summons up the Steam Devils from the sea (Lake Ontario).

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GB5B84meSh0&NR=1
Nordlander sacrificial site on a point of 60-foot cliffs along Lake Superior.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia9SMx...eature=related
Nordlander Wizard summons the Creeping Ice.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ct-5CE...eature=related
Picts get nailed by 16-foot wave on Gichigumee (Lake Superior) in the winter.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6yHNtVA9EmY&NR=1
More Picts getting wet. A strange trial of manhood or something.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cbaxf_...eature=related
Nordlander on the shore in the winter talking with his gods, and saying 'Ouch!' when he gets hit with flying pieces of ice.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KI8Pkv...eature=related
Winter Waves pounding the shore underneath a Nordlander Keep on Gichigumee (Lake Superior). Maybe a Pictish Shaman is responsible for this weather?? The waves get bigger than this in fiercer winter winds/blizzards, but there are a few near 20-foot waves in this video.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Ee8y...eature=related
Pict wondering why Lake Michigan is frozen. Could it be more evil magic.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N-ql7Z...eature=related
Aquilonian commenting on frozen Lake Michigan at the town of Chicago.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UFPEb3jhFtc
Beach and lake are frozen.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yvjJ64vWTIY
More evil wizardry affecting the waether and waves on Lake Michigan.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iquCHS...nd-fitzgerald/
729-foot Argossian ship SS Edmund Fitzgerald sinks off Pictish coast when the "Witch of November" visited Lake Superior. Especially watch from 1:20 to 3:05 minutes on the video. Especially at 3:00 when a 30-foot or so wave breaks over the deck of a simialr ship.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwEft...eature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D7n0bbbK4kM&NR=1
Nordlander or Pict river before ...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CcdfdU5u-r4&NR=1
... and after some rain. No fishing or boats on the water today and for some time to come. Perhaps this is the Black or Thunder River between Aquilonia and Pictland???

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a_PYRjr0Kiw
The Great Cataclysm begins along the Zingaran and Pictish coasts. In the future, this area would be known as Britanny/Bretagne and the Bay of Biscay. This is truly the wrath of the gods.

Chris

PS: Make sure you have good seaworthy boats (Pict sailors on the Great Lakes call them 'boats' and not 'ships'.) in your mod.

[Spartan198]

PS: Make sure you have good seaworthy boats (Pict sailors on the Great Lakes call them 'boats' and not 'ships'.) in your mod.

I'm fairly certain that REH's Hyborian Age Picts never took to the sea at all...

I mean, that's not to say they shouldn't have any sea-going craft, but their navy should be severely limited when compared to sea-faring kingdoms like Zingara and Argos.

[Taranaich]

Yeah, Venhya/India was/is BIG. Wasn't it also somewhat fragmented into many independent princedoms, with only a couple being VERY powerful??

Wasn't there also a fear that tribes of Iranistan would unite, and that the more powerful Vendyhans held sway over the fragmented tribes of Iranistan along their common border, but the Vendyhans were worried about the Iranistanians uniting?? Something like that I think.

You're thinking of Ghulistan, which was thrown into chaos when the Turanians took three of their biggest cities (as per the "People of the Black Circle" synopsis). Vendhya seemed to be pretty stable, but unlike the pastiches/later maps, it probably didn't control the entire subcontinent, with a substantial portion of the south ruled by Ghanara and the Thaggans (you'll hear about them in the future).

Iranistan was shown as a barely-intact country of tribes like Ghulistan in the pastiches, but I don't really see enough evidence to come to that conclusion in the few snippets we have. The sheer number of Persian influences in Turan & Stygia are too great to be coincidental, and more indicative (to me) of an organized, centralized empire than a tribeland. Contrary to most people's opinion on Howard, his history was never slap-dash: a reading of his historical books would show a great amount of detail and depth. Howard was very careful in choosing his Hyborian names: those that seem out of place are usually there for a reason. All the clues again point to Iranistan being an "Empire put to seed": one that was a mighty force in the past, but threatened by newer, younger empires.

PS: Some of those Picts are more Irish than you think!!!

I don't doubt that! :D Very interesting (and sobering) clips, quite evocative of Northern Pictish climes. I have some dark plans for the Mountains of the Dead, northernmost part of the Pictish Wilderness (that area directly west of Cimmeria and south of Vanaheim).

[christof139]

Yeah, I have read some of the pastiches and have many of them. The only things 'historical' Howard wrote about the H. Age is some very short histories(y) that have been added to one (or two?) of his novels. All of his notes haven't been published as far as I know, however, ...

Seems that in one of the orginal 13 novels published (not all totally Howard's writings as you know), that Iranistan is described as fragmented, and perhaps that Ghulistan was actually once part of Iranistan (?), pointing to what you said about Iranistan once being an empire.

Yeah, somethings are very sobering. However, one must have a sense of humor concerning this and etc. I always liked nature, and hence my degree in Geology, even though I am and have been for some time a defunct geologist. Never worked in the field directly, just some related things. The videos on YouTube are great concerning nature and there are also some decent historical etc. ones.

I wish Howard had written more of Hyperborea, that very cold, isolated, and magic ridden place. The queen/sorceress reminds me a bit of the evil ice queen in the Narnia tales. Maybe the evil beings etc. of Narnia and the Warhammer world's Chaos Warriors and maybe even the Kislevites would be good to draw some more ideas from to flesh out the ice realm of Hyperborea. winter maps for the battles in the game, with maybe a battle setting in a large ice cave/fortress for one battle map, if anyone wants to take the time to mod that and it would be a lot of work.

Thaggans = Thuggies maybe?? Something like that would be good.

Yeah, the Irish are everywhere: at the Gaelic League, the Fratenal Order of Hybernians (or whatever it is called, I forget), the Polish American Legion (doesn't discriminate as to race or ethnicticity), in Mexico of course per the San Patrico(-tricio) Battalion and etc. Guiness is good to put in Bar-B-Q sauce BTW, as are most beers but particularily dark beers I prefer(ed). Polish Honey Mead is also good for a Bar-B-Q sauce ingredient. Ale and Mead would make a good trade resource for some nations of the Hyborian Age - would add some historical factuality.

Chris

PS: More evidence of the Irish being everywhere: Conan is replacing Jay Leno on the Tonight Show, originally starring Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon (Irish), or was it MacMahon (Scottish)?? The Scotti were an Irish tribe anyway as you know.