Portrayal of Ptolemaic Egypt in Film+TV

[antisocialmunky]

From

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

The chart of similarites is the most telling. both were born of a virgin under a special star on/around Dec 25th (solar), both had 12 disciples, both were betrayed by a disciple, both were crucified, both were ressurrected after 3 days, etc, etc etc.

Its all about the zodiac and the constellations. The cross is metaphorical for the "Cross of the Zodiac" upon which the Sun 'dies' every year, reaching its lowest point on the horizon in the dead of winter. Then, after 3 days, it begins to rise again, being "resurrected". Its very fascinating what ancient peoples knew about the heavens.

Regarding Mosaic law, among other things, the "ten commandments" can be directly lifted from the Book of the Dead.

Well, while it is interesting to see the things compared side by side, I'd have to say that on certain points, its reading too much into things.

For example, no bithdate is given for Jesus but the 25th was adopted because of practices in other parts of the Mediterranian and Europe that also used that date as the death and rebirth of the sun. In fact, much of these traditions that equate Jesus and the sun were adopted after the first century when Christianity became infused with Greek and different local religions. Another example of this is the picture of Jesus being cradled by Mary which was developped also after the first century and may or may not be a prexisting archetype for a caring mother figure. And these are just two instances.

While the parallels are actually quite interesting, but I don't think its sound on the basis that the author or the author of the original text(s) seem to pick and choose only certain points. I mean, if you read the whole of the accounts of Horus and the Gospels, could you say that Jesus's life was based on it? If you looked at the belief systems of both, could you say that Judeo religions had an Egyptian base if you consider that the ancients Jews did not have an after life in their concept of 'hell' in Sheol or concept of a 'soul' that transcends death?

As cool as that page is, I don't think the research is without its faults.

Also, with regards of the book of the dead, I think to say that it was 'directly lifted' is an exaggeration. I mean, look at it:

The account in question(from the religious tolerance site):

"Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .
I have not reviled the God.
I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.
I have not done what the God abominates . . .
I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
I have not blocked the God at his processions. 5

Exodus:

“I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 3#You must not have any other gods against my face.

4#“You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5#You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me; 6#but exercising loving-kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7#“You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.

8#“Remembering the sabbath day to hold it sacred, 9#you are to render service and you must do all your work six days. 10#But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, you nor your son nor your daughter, your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your alien resident who is inside your gates. 11#For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred.

12#“Honor your father and your mother in order that your days may prove long upon the ground that Jehovah your God is giving you.

13#“You must not murder.

14#“You must not commit adultery.

15#“You must not steal.

16#“You must not testify falsely as a witness against your fellowman.

17#“You must not desire your fellowman’s house. You must not desire your fellowman’s wife, nor his slave man nor his slave girl nor his bull nor his ass nor anything that belongs to your fellowman.”

Deuteronomy

‘You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave anyone unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.

12#“‘Keeping the sabbath day to hold it sacred, just as Jehovah your God commanded you, 13#you are to render service and you must do all your work six days. 14#But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, you nor your son nor your daughter nor your slave man nor your slave girl nor your bull nor your ass nor any domestic animal of yours nor your alien resident who is inside your gates, in order that your slave man and your slave girl may rest the same as you. 15#And you must remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and Jehovah your God proceeded to bring you out from there with a strong hand and an outstretched arm. That is why Jehovah your God commanded you to carry on the sabbath day.

16#“‘Honor your father and your mother, just as Jehovah your God has commanded you; in order that your days may prove long and it may go well with you on the ground that Jehovah your God is giving you.

17#“‘You must not murder.

18#“‘Neither must you commit adultery.

19#“‘Neither must you steal.

20#“‘Neither must you testify to a falsehood against your fellowman.

21#“‘Neither must you desire your fellowman’s wife. Neither must you selfishly crave your fellowman’s house, his field or his slave man or his slave girl, his bull or his ass or anything that belongs to your fellowman.’

Now, if you're careful, you can tell where I'm coming from - but I digress. Only about four are shared between the two things. Nothing about damming flowing water or quenching a fire. I mean, its the same case if you try to compare the code of Hammurabi to the Mosaic law, there are the some similarities but the focus in both is different from a careful reading.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a backroom discussion and atleast end it before someone posts the bible fight picture so if you want to continue this, we could go into PM or something.

Also, yes I agree that the ancients had an amazing understanding of the sky. However, given enough time and energy coupled with the drive of human curiosity we should hardly be surprised. Mankind hasn't really changed in the last several thousand years, they've only found better ways of doing the same thing.

[Andronikos]

Ptolemaics were greeks and they had greek customs. But they gave religious and cultural freedom to natives and also took some of their practises (titles...) to be more popular. Popularity and stability were important - Egypt was the most stable diadochi kingdom as Alexander was their "saviour" not a conqueror like in persia. I am talking about the first 3 kings who made egypt the strongest and the richest kingdom in the mediterranean. Late kings were weak and destroyed what heir ancestors did. Hanibal during his conquest considered egypt to be weak to help him and did not ask for aliance.
Later kings were one like another and their reign was full of rebelions, fights for throne and stupid politics.

[Bootsiuv]

Where's the Ptolemaic team expert to answer all of our questions? Does EB not have a Ptolemy expert? I find that difficult to believe...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

An expert on what movie or tv show was most accurate? It's been answered.

[Bootsiuv]

I understand that, I was just curious...

....and not an expert on tv/films, I meant an expert on Ptolemaic egypt.

[Magister Militum Titus Pullo]

Television historical dramas never are on the ball when it comes to their subject matter. Take the scenes in H.B.O'S "Rome" series where Cleopatra, Octavia and others where actually smoking opium, for example. What the f*ck were these people thinking? How did they get it into their thick heads that people smoked back then? It would have been more believable if opium was chewed or mixed into their wine. Idiots.

[Zaknafien]

they probably wanted to show people smoking because thats what their audience would understand, to convey the drug-addled state of the characters involved.

[Long lost Caesar]

i thought back then people DID smoke. i mean, pipes have been around for quite a while...havent they?
and as for the portrayal of ptolemaic egypt, i personally saw it as alright, but then again most of the western world DOES see egypt as pharoah worshiping chariot lovers so it could be a stereotype influenced thing.

[hoom]

How about in the movie Alexander? Only shows Ptolemy wandering around talking to a scribe & some backgrounds of the harbour but those scenes had a very Greek feel rather than Pharonic.