Worst EB Unit?

[antisocialmunky]

So what do do you guys think is the most pathetic unit in EB?

I would have to say that Greek Archers suck the most. I'm impressed if they can kill more than 3 men of a group of decent heavy infantry.

[Xehh II]

You mean Toxotes? They're not useless, I use them heaps.

As for my most useless unit it's obviously celtic chariots, they suck, I cannot say that enough, I know they are supposed to be used against heavy inf. or something like that but they suck at that as well, they suck, they suck, they suck, they make Casse generals useless!

[Long lost Caesar]

totally agree with you monkey. toxotai are AWFUL! i thought that a lot of them would do some good in a siege, they ended up taking up too much space on the walls and blocking infantry fighting siege towers. what a shambles that was...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I only use them to defend cities (to set fire to rams or towers then only) - and then only one or two at max. They shouldn't be that common (numberswise in the armies) and thankfully we don't see tons of them anywhere usually.

[blank]

toxotai are good... they won some nasty battles for me when i was defending Taras against the scummy Roman hordes and i tend to keep at least 2 archer units in my armies

As for the most useless unit, i'd say Pantodapoi

[Olaf The Great]

Pantodapoi, atleast toxotoi are cheap and have flaming arrows.

Seriously, Pantodapoi are expensive, look stupid, and have skirmisher stats.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Huh? Pantodapoi are excellent units.

You just got to know how to use them, besides being fodder....

What are you guys staring at me for?

[antisocialmunky]

totally agree with you monkey. toxotai are AWFUL! i thought that a lot of them would do some good in a siege, they ended up taking up too much space on the walls and blocking infantry fighting siege towers. what a shambles that was...

Hehehe, well if you want a tip, use slingers instead. Comparing toxotai and slingers is like comparing a paintball and a .50 cal FMJ.

[Andronikos]

I don't like militias, but I understand they have to be in game. Toxotai are good - I managed to root an army of militias with fire arrows. And Casse chariots - I like them, it's the same like other special units - if you can use them, they are really valuable.

[Kampfkrebs]

Two words: Equites Ambakaro.

[Mediolanicus]

I finally got EB to work!!!!
I don't know how, but it suddenly works.
It sometimes still CTD's while loading the menu the first time, but once I'm playing a campain it works like a charm (actually a lot more fluently than other mods)

But on the topic :
My vote goes to the Pantodapoi. Sure they have other uses than fodder, but with those stats, they are just too expensive to train once you've got anything marginally better at your disposal.

I'm currently playing a Casse campain (somewhere around 255BC at the moment) and I must say that the chariots are not at all useless! They have been decisive in every battle I've fought until now.

[Sarcasm]

Two words: Equites Ambakaro.

Why?

They're to be removed though, so....

[NeoSpartan]

CELTIC CHARRIOTS are the worst unit.

They don't do jack. All they do is get tangeled up deep inside infantry formations and can't get out. Also, skirmishers kill them like nothing. Plus their cost is better used in another decent infantry.

For all the $$ that they cost, they ain't worth it. On the other hand taxotai can burn rams and towers, and they are super so u can use them as fodder or as garrison.

Elephants are 2nd on my list of worst units. Mainly due to their extreme cost, since I can buy several units with that $$. And if it is one of them super expensive armored elephants, I can buy a 1/2 stack with that $$$.

[Kampfkrebs]

Why?

They're to be removed though, so....

Because they die somehow even faster than the chariots.
And thank god they will be removed...

[carthage_supreme]

some of them on my list

pantodapai: They're not even worth the trouble, all levys are superior to them LOL , even numidian skirimisher would outdue them. Keep them only in your city-garrison to collect taxes and enforce the law.

Cidainh (Celtic Chariots): Utterly useless, kinda like crap-quality javliners on wheels, there speed is there only advantage. The only reason for someone to have them is due to there morale boost and , otherwise celtic slingers will outperform them anytime as missle-support.



Sotaroas(celtic archers): what use are they anyway? crappier version of the already crappy toxotoi, on the field they're useless since they cant even dish out decent damage against infantry, i always keept 4 units of them in my army and they never did any significant damage. You should only use them to intimidate enemies in morale disadvanage or as garrison support, but on the field the celtic slingers are superior and do devestating damage compared to sotaroas.


Nizag Gund (Parthian Spearmen): same as pantodapai

[The Celtic Viking]

Sotaroas(celtic archers): what use are they anyway? crappier version of the already crappy toxotoi, on the field they're useless since they cant even dish out decent damage against infantry, i always keept 4 units of them in my army and they never did any significant damage. You should only use them to intimidate enemies in morale disadvanage or as garrison support, but on the field the celtic slingers are superior and do devestating damage compared to sotaroas.

How are they worse than toxotai? They have 1 more missile attack, has longer range and, unlike the toxotai with their useless knives, can also act as light infantry when their ammo is spent thanks to their spears (which also gives them better defense against cavalry) and their superior defense and morale. Simply put, the only place where toxotai is better is in the cost, but that's not by enough to balance the scale. Sotaroas are better.

I'm not saying that they are by any means excellent archers, but they're certainly not the worst. I look at them as light infantry that has switched shield and javelins for a bow, and it seems to work well - at least against units with little armour, which is their intended targets anyway. As can be said about toxotai, they're definately good to have in sieges to burn down rams and towers. What's not so good about them, though, is that you need the first reforms to train them.

The worst unit in EB I find to be... celtic chariots. Their javelins do nada, melee equals suicide and they're expensive. It's very unfortunate because I find them to be cool, good looking and I simply don't want to play Casse without chariots. But I don't want them to be useless at anything but cheerleading either.

[Watchman]

What's not so good about them, though, is that you need the first reforms to train them.

I've always wondered a bit about that mind you. I mean, how hard can it be to find a bunch of hunters with bows to play fire support...?
Particularly since IIRC the Gallic starting stacks contain a couple.

[snevets]

When one considers the value of a unit one has to consider it in campaign; Pantodapoi aren't great in custom battles, but they are in campaigns. Pantodapoi move far faster than phalanx troops, can be raised early in great number, and are cheaper and more easily raised than Jewish levies (thus I feel better about abandoning them). I second the Nizag Gund.

[Spendios]

you may have some more pathetic reserve soon

[Thaatu]

Am I the only one who uses celtic chariots as a terror weapon? When the lines are locked I take a unit of those to parade and throw javelins behind the enemy line. The enemy usually breaks just from that.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

All Psiloi suck, but the real suckers are the Akontistai.They can't do any damage, they can't set things on fire, they are just there to die. Even the lightest of cavalry erases them from the battlefield.

In cavalry terms, really bad are Hippakontistai and Thraikioi Hippeis. They die like flies. What are they good for after all? Even Curepos (very bad) and Ridoharjoz (not so good at all) are waaaayyy better.

Pantodapoi are also bad. And so are Nizag Gund, Hoplitai Haploi and Doryphoroi Pontikoi. All just cannon fodder.

[Bootsiuv]

I can't help but disagree with the Hoplitai Haploi....I think they're an excellent unit for the cost.

Their attack blows, but their defense isn't half bad, and their build requirements are as low as it gets. They're a solid unit in the early game, although they do begin to suck badly later on.

[TWFanatic]

Hellenic Slingers are far superior to the Hellenic archers.

The most worthless, expensive, slow, and all around worst units in EB are artillery. See ele thread. They're a joke!

[blank]

Am I the only one who uses celtic chariots as a terror weapon? When the lines are locked I take a unit of those to parade and throw javelins behind the enemy line. The enemy usually breaks just from that.

cavalry can do the same thing, are more manouverable (chariot drivers move like they had a bit too many vodkas before battle), are more readily available and have other uses as well

edit: i have to change my answer to artillery - good point TWfanatic...

[Bootsiuv]

I would just as soon see the Casse generals be foot infantry....let them build chariots as elites if you must, but don't force them on us.

Chariots were rarely used in melee battle anyways, they usually served as field taxis, bringing in fresh troops and taking out tired and wounded, or serving as mobile missile platforms.

The Casse are the only faction who can't really use their general in melee should the situation grow desperate. In fact, doing so is a great way to accelerate a loss into a full blown defeat, as your general invariably routs, and then your beleaugered men quickly follow suit.

[TWFanatic]

Very good point boot, I completely agree. The Cassae general should be an infantry unit.

Personally, I modded my game to make Calawrae (sp?) my early general and Rycalwrae (sp?) my late general (for after reforms take place).

[Dram]

chariots are pretty much inherently flawed due to the rtw engine. the only strength they have is against enemy cavalry, but you need to manually control the chariots with pause-unpause controlling to make it work, which is annoying, since you cant let the chariots come to a halt, they need to be in motion rubbing against the enemy horses to do their special attack dmg.

besides chariots i dont think many of them are really bad as such. i mean elephants may not appeal to you in the early game due to the fact that you could have decent army for the same price but once you have a real empire the money they cost is insignificant.

[MiniMe]

In cavalry terms, really bad are Hippakontistai and Thraikioi Hippeis. They die like flies. What are they good for after all?

I find Hippakontistai very useful for KH. Four units of Hippakontistai throwing javelins behind the enemy line.... AI gets very nervous when his army's surrounded and breaks his frontal formation thus giving you serious advantage.
Hippakontistai are very cheap and fast moving, you can recruit them almost everywhere from 1 level MIC. Nope, they are not "Zee Awesome Charge" cavalry, but they are useful.

Moderator!
There was an older tread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86391 about the same.

[NeoSpartan]

I find Hippakontistai very useful for KH. Four units of Hippakontistai throwing javelins behind the enemy line.... AI gets very nervous when his army's surrounded and breaks his frontal formation thus giving you serious advantage.
Hippakontistai are very cheap and fast moving, you can recruit them almost everywhere from 1 level MIC. Nope, they are not "Zee Awesome Charge" cavalry, but they are useful.

Moderator!
There was an older tread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86391 about the same.

Well.... I had a guy do that to me in MP and it didn't work, sure I lost a few guys but that was it.

the whole battle lasted 10mins..... too bad it was our only battle due to connection issue.

The problem with those horse is the fact that they have absolutely NO charge.
The Sweboz don't have a charge either but they are decent hand to hand.
Louges Ecpos (sp) have a decent hand to hand too (although a little less than the Sweboz) BUT they do have a good Charge!

[Tellos Athenaios]

Hippakontistai have some really powerful secondary stats, though... They might not be the end all and be all of Skirmisher cavalry (especially because akontistai and the like will make short work of them in melee too...), still when comitted at the right time they will make you run for the hills! And believe me, you won't get to the hills in time - Hippakontistai are beyond excellent when it comes to riding down fleeing troops.