Worst EB Unit?

[Spoofa]

Pantodopoi, sorry to say are the weakest, eastern discipline combined with poor equipment make a bad soldier, to me they represent a group of men in a city with some basic, basic equipment to defend the city if at dire need, I rarely ever take them into the field with me.

[Bootsiuv]

The only time I usually use Pantadapoi in any significant numbers is early in the campaign when I can't afford anything better.

They're not very effective, but are capable of pinning an enemy unit long enough for a flank attack, mostly because of they're large unit size (120 on large IIRC).

[woad&fangs]

I haven't gotten around to playing the Casse yet so I'm not sure if their chariots are actually bad. I remember that a lot of people complained about the brittanian generals in Vannilla Rome. I actually had a lot of success with chariots in vanilla. They were an effective anti cavalry force that could mow down enemy generals units as long as you paid attention and didn't let your chariots stop.

Greek Archers(I think they're toxotai somethingorother) are the worst units in the game. they're like peasants from vanilla that managed to find a few sticks and a piece of string and suddenly thought that they were actually useful to the army. They thought wrong, plus unlike peasants, they only have 60 men per unit so they aren't real useful as garrisons to prevent rebellion.

[Schatten]

hmm.... celtic chariots and greek archers(toxitai or so) are equal bad, hard to say who of them is worser.
pandapoi have their use as garrison or to hold the enemy in one place so other units can flank them but those 2 units in all way useless any other unit in palce of them is more usefull in any way even the roman accensi more usefull

[TWFanatic]

The simple truth is that light, javelin armed cavalry are not battle winning units. Used correctly, however, they are good auxiliaries (particularly the Thrakian light cavalry). I find them a nice compliment to heavy cavalry. As Makedon, I often deploy my Companions, Thessalians, and prodomai with a light cavalry unit on their flank that can circle around the enemy heavy cavalry after mine deliver there devastating charge and fire missiles into their rear. Then, while the heavy cavalry turn in and roll up the enemy flank, the light cavalry can pursue the enemy cavalry or skirmishers. This system, combined with my solid phalanx line which can hold against anything in time for my cavalry to arrive, has worked flawlessly in my current Makedonian campaign.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Because they die somehow even faster than the chariots.
And thank god they will be removed...

They aren't heavy cavalry, what did you expect? Just excellent skirmisher cavalry that can hold it's own after the enemy is softened enough.

You're using them incorrectly for sure. Never keep them in melee against non-softened units for long.

[bovi]

At least everyone will be agreed which is the worst unit when the next version comes out...

[Rodion Romanovich]

I second pantodapoi, but how can anyone find akontistai worthless? I used quite a few of them to kill carthie generals and hold the line at critical moments in my Romani campaign (typically in battles where my main legions were away and I had to put together an army out of reserves and garrison troops. Besides, akontistai are excellent garrison troops (large unit size, cheap upkeep).

[Bootsiuv]

At least everyone will be agreed which is the worst unit when the next version comes out...

You insiders and you're tantalizing tidbits of information....giving us just enough to keep us salivating at the mouth like a pack of rabid dogs.

Damn you, damn you and the entire EB propoganda machine. :P

[Sdragon]

It's rare that I use the pantodapoi for field battles but they have their uses. To absorb missiles, to fight skirmishers since they are quick enough to catch them. They may have skirmisher stats but their spear has better lethality so they slaughter them. Lets not forget that it takes a pretty good cavalry unit to beat them in a straight fight. They slaughter most light and medium cavalry and cost a fraction of the cost. Even good cavalry takes a while to rip through such a large unit size. I use them to bog down enemy forces or to fight on the flanks, either by flanking or turning the tide of a cavalry duel.

Personally I find the costs of units a bit messed up. Get a better type of a unit and it's increased cost is by far worth it for the quality boost. Once you get Hellenic heavy spear men the regular version just isn't worth the cash. Once you have a better alternative to the pantodapoi there is no reason to have them. You'll only use them if your the Seleucids because you can't make much else in most your empire and need the garrison size. Still, I'll take these guys onto the field if I have nothing better, as long as you don't stick them on the front line they will be more than worth their cost. (which isn't much so you can replace them)

Hellenic archers get my vote for the worst unit. Only use they have is running around the flank and shooting the enemy in the back, which is just cheap so I don't do that... Still I use them, just because it doesn't feel right not to.

I rate javelin cavalry pretty low. All they are to me is a way to get some cavalry on the field if your too poor or under developed to get anything better. But when it comes down to it a shaken or wavering enemy will break if anything hits them in the back and not much is fast enough to flee from them once broken. I like to make them hunt fleeing generals so I don't have to deal with a full body guard next turn.

Hmm, seems I'm just rambling now...

[edyzmedieval]

Pantodapoi and Toxotai. Actually Akontistai can be sometimes useful.

Also those Celtic Skirmisher cavalry are crap too...

[Tellos Athenaios]

You insiders and you're tantalizing tidbits of information....giving us just enough to keep us salivating at the mouth like a pack of rabid dogs.

The worst is yet to come... Where EB meets unit X.
@Zarax:

[The Persian Cataphract]

I find the likes of Lugoae, Nizag Gund (And Armenian equivalent) Pantodapoi to be utterly worthless, except the Nizag Gund does appear to be marginally better.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I find the likes of Lugoae, Nizag Gund (And Armenian equivalent) Pantodapoi to be utterly worthless, except the Nizag Gund does appear to be marginally better.

I find the Caucasian spearmen to be rather though light infantry. In my AS campaign; they are the evil people who crush Ptolemaioi FM's... (Seriously, did you ever think they were able to rout a unit of about half their size consisting of seasoned Hetairoi?) And they manage pretty well against swordsmen too: I've had one unit of Caucasian spearment rout a unit of Medium Infantry (I will not reveal it's full name; it's not in the public release)... and all on their own.

[The Persian Cataphract]

I'm not referring to the Caucasian Spearmen, I meant the Hai Nizagamartik. The Caucasian Spearmen are something of a "These stats are bullshit"-type unit and they are indeed surprisingly resilient.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Oh, seeing that the Caucasian spearmen cost exactly the same as Pantodapoi in both upkeep and recruitment...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

At least everyone will be agreed which is the worst unit when the next version comes out...

We even put a lot of effort into it too. Stefan did a great job on it, handling with the delicate care needed for an expensive flower the piece of poop that is that particular unit.

[Mediolanicus]

Am I the only one who uses celtic chariots as a terror weapon? When the lines are locked I take a unit of those to parade and throw javelins behind the enemy line. The enemy usually breaks just from that.

No, you are not

Sure, the Celtic chariots are utterly useless in melee and I don't train them separately, but I make good use of my Casse general units.
I keep them behind my main battle line for the morale boost during the initial clash of armies (and to intercept any light cavalry that might charge into my flacks). When the battle is well under way I bring the chariots to the flanks and charge into the middle of the enemy battle line.
Usually 2 or 3 enemy units start routing immediately, which causes such a drop in morale for the other units, that soon the entire army crumbles apart and flees.
The are also very good at rerouting rallied units.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Not all Psiloi suck. Akontistai and Sphendonatai are good, especially Sphendonatai. If you manage to put a couple of these or Akontistai to shoot behind the enemy line, then they'll do some formidable damage.

Toxotai, on the other hand, are useless crap. Their numbers make them worthless even as fodder. Since there are a lot of Mercenary Toxotai Kretikoi around, along with Eastern Archers if you are a Diadochi, then I never bother to recruit them.

[Andronikos]

Two words: Equites Ambakaro.

Shouldn't they be elite?

[Bootsiuv]

LOL @ Teleklos....aah, flowers and poop. The finer things in life....

[SwebozGaztiz]

.

In cavalry terms, really bad are Hippakontistai and Thraikioi Hippeis. They die like flies. What are they good for after all? Even Curepos (very bad) and Ridoharjoz (not so good at all) are waaaayyy better.

What???? thrikioi hippeis bad??? oh my thats bull they make the best skirmisher support cavalry in the game, they die like flies if you throw them at phalangites or heavy spearmen but you need to learn how to use them, but well i respect your opinion my friend, also i really dont see why youre going to remove the ambakaro epones!!!they make an excellent corps of light cavalry, they have excellent stats and they really know how to fight!!

returning to the topic i guess the eastern skirmishers or the akonkistai really do nothing other than die, also pantadopoi are way too expensive for their stats, and well also i dont think the celtic archers are bad they are similar to the german or baltic archers, and in my sweboz campaign i really use the baltic archers a lot(they look cool!!)i guess you need to learn how to deploy units properly every unit has its use...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Yes, every unit has its worth. But unfortunately one only has twenty units in an army, and not a single one more is possible, and thus one has to think twice which kind of cavalry gets the precious place. And for that reason Thraikioi Hippeis are just not enough all-around for me.

To Nizag Gund and Hai Nizagamartik, they are crap but one has to admit that for a unit of their cost and availability, they have a surprisingly good stamina against missiles, especially slingers, due to their wicker shield which seems to be a good absorber.

[LusitanianWolf]

Yes, every unit has its worth

Agreed.

But I dont like to use EB javelin cavalry (except traikioi and akamparo epones) and Celtic chariots since they are too few to make real damage with javelins (But I usualy play in hard in battles). But they are good enought to distract the enemy.

I dont have much pratice with pantodapoi but I think that even they are good enough to hold a line for some time (the same for other eastern infantry).

All psyloy are good enought to me, toxotai have saved my Epiros campain, and 240 javelins from akontistai can do serious damage, even to my general.


Elephants are awsome in EB, I use them much more now than I used in vannilla or BI. Cant wait for the new skins.
Too bad AI cant use them rightly...

[PershsNhpios]

Have any of you gracefully brilliant tacticians attempted to use the chariot in the manner a chariot should be used?

They are but overpowered, with one unit I can destroy seven units of Celtic skirmishers.
Before you heap any more criticisms upon the developers, and push them into a conclusion that will push them off their historic perspective, try this:

Line up the unit of chariots with another (Preferably infantry) unit.
Then, simply double click on the other side of that unit, tell the chariots to 'run' through the enemy.
On first contact, as the game as ruled, the chariots will stop and try to commence a melee action.
Don't allow it, keep double clicking constant, and they will soon run straight through, and once they are through the formation, give them a slight reprieve and then force them back through the line again.

Catch the enemy like a fish within a net of chariots, and then you will see the usefulness, and why you can defeat the entire southern-british Eleutheroi with 3 general units...

And I thought I was only moderate in stratagem!

[olly]

Fair enough if that is how the chariots are meant to be used but I never pause battles and that is just far too much micro management for my tastes.

Therefor my vote for the worst unit still goes to those 2nd rate tricycles.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

It's the same thing for Nellies, you have to keep em moving, except less micro management for the Nellies, as only javs are 'very' dangerous to them.

[Zarax]

The worst is yet to come... Where EB meets unit X.
@Zarax:

Err...
I didn't even post in this thread...
Was it referred to my sig or to some idiotic comment I made about some unit in some other thread?

[Lysander13]

For me in terms of battlefield effectiveness it has to be the Toxotai. I just don't bother recruiting these poor fellows.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Err...
I didn't even post in this thread...
Was it referred to my sig or to some idiotic comment I made about some unit in some other thread?

Sig.