Worst EB Unit?

[jhhowell]

Looking at the question from the perspective of what's not worth recruiting, I'd include Velites as contenders. They're decent skirmishers, but by the time they become available Rome is guaranteed access to Akontistai and Peltastai, and very likely can also recruit Numidians. The key qualities of javelin units are unit size and to a lesser extent ammo and range. Velites are IMHO almost as good as Akontistai (more men make better garrisons, more damaging single volleys on the battlefield, Akontistai have better range, and can be recruited and retrained over half the Mediterranean) and decisively inferior to the other two units (Peltasts making up for lower unit size with the versatility of having a viable melee attack and armor). So although their stats are not what one would think of as a "worst unit" contender, placed in context I honestly can't imagine a circumstance when it would make sense for Rome to recruit any Velites.

Of the units previously mentioned, I'd go with Toxotai. Deeply unimpressive.

[Moros]

Sacred Band infantry. Give me the cheaper, more avaible heavy elite phalangites any time. much more cost effective + 2 times more men.

[Bootsiuv]

Aren't those trained from a temple? I would think they would only be available in 1-2 cities in your empire, unless you build the appropriate temple in every city in your empire. I've not used them much in campaign.

[Spoofa]

heh, no, they are only trainable in I THINK Carthage, at most the province to the south (the name escapes me).

[Digby Tatham Warter]

For me in terms of battlefield effectiveness it has to be the Toxotai. I just don't bother recruiting these poor fellows.

Most troops have a use somewhere, I don't use them on the battlefield, but as garrison troops, I use them on the walls(or run them round to the enemy rear)to fire into the back of troops(cheap trick I know, but I can't help my self).

It's those cheap peasant type javelin troops that I can't stand, I've had scraps where the AI fields half of it's stack with them, and my cav go from the flanks sweeping up a thousand plus of the horrible little men, I know their cheap but I like troops to multi task where poss. My jav troops where possible are Thracians because their good support inf(and they look good).

My favourite Faction is AS, their problem is the distances they have to cover, because of this casualties are harder to replace, so I tend to use heavier troops that can come out of the average melee fairly intact.

[konny]

Yes, all those militia class units are not meant to stand in the main line. Their role is to fight the skirmish battle with the enemy light troops before the 'real soldiers' advance, that they need not to advance through a hail of arrows, missles and stones. The light troops are also used to make the enemy main troops, like Romans and Thureophoroi, throw their javellins on a widespread fromation of Akontistai instead of dense packed formations of Hoplites.

Deployed in that manner also a group of Toxotai backed up by some Pantodapoi can do severe damage to enemy light troops. (The Pantodapoi are used to block enemy cavalry that tries to chase off the archers). But they won't do any remarkable damage to a Phalanx, Hoplites, heavy cavalry or any other decent armoured forces. For that one would need well experienced slingers, and a couple of them.


Now to some units that manage to disapoint me anytime I field them (or even fight them):

Doryphoroi Pontikoi I thought they must be something above militia because they are more expensive than Thureophoroi or Hoplitai. But nope, their conduct is not better than any Pantodapoi or the like. Their higher moral only makes them die standing than die running.

Getikoi Stratiotai Wow, how I was impressed by the parade before the first battle as Getai: horse archers, barbarian shock troops and even phalanx.... After fighting some battles with that army I was very much cooled down. Especially the Stratiotai always suffered severe casulties, regardless against whom they fought. In another campaign I send one of my Pantodapoi Phalangitai frontal against one Getikoi Stratiotai; outcome: the eastern farmer-pikemen just lost a handfull of men, the Getai phalanx was down to 1/4 before it truned and run. BTW, I can't say anything on the Drapanai, because without shield and armour they need a field free of missle units to even get close to the enemy.

Ridóharjoz The only Germanic cavalry, therefore I thougth they would be better than any Celtic or Roman horsemen; but no, anything above Gallic missle cavalry will eat them for breakfast and spit them out again to leave room for lunch.

Hoplitai Haploi I know, they are militia and shouldn't be counted among the 'real fighters'; but the AI is so fond of them that it raises tons of them for the field armies as soon as it can get them. I have even seen Averni stacks that were made of half of Haploi after conquering Massilla, leave alone the Romans as soon as they have one of the Greek cities in the deep south. Now, so far I hadn't any encouter with them as main line in which my main line did not cut through them like through butter.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Drapanai, I quite like these fellows, charge as soon as possible, once horns are locked enemy missiles should leave them alone, from our perspective, we might shoot them in the rear, but the AI won't.

[konny]

I did not had the pleasure to often: in my first battle as Getai my Drapanai were wiped out before getting in contact with the foe (not few by friendly fire ). Since that experince I a) never raised them again and b) make them a prime target for archers when on encounter with them - so far, I can't recall that I seriously had to fight them in close combat, save for a handfull of survivors.

[antisocialmunky]

Hoplite Haploi is one of the best milita units in the game IMO. They are tough if engaged head on.

[konny]

Hoplite Haploi is one of the best milita units in the game IMO. They are tough if engaged head on.

....by other militias or cavalry. Anything else will have no problems with them. They are for sure among the best militias in the game but nothing to make your main line of - what the AI loves to do.

[Parkev]

Having only so far played as the Casse, I would have to say Lugoae are the simply useless without any javelins. Even if they only had two or one, they could use superior numbers to offset the result of being used as pincushions. I'd pay extra, just so they were usuable in battles with a few javelins.

[Anthony]

As far as cheap levies go, I really like Lugoae, they do pretty well for me.

[blank]

As far as cheap levies go, I really like Lugoae, they do pretty well for me.

true, i beat an enemy force of phalanxes, slingers, hoplites, thureophoroi, skirmishers and a general (about 8-9 units total) with 5 units of Lugoae when rallying out

[Rodion Romanovich]

Wow! What difficulty was that, and how did you do it?

[Parkev]

I agree that Lugoae are decent enough for what they are intended to do, but I'd really like to see them with some javelins. Generic Celtic warfare seems to be, walk up, javelin some people, get javelined, charge and after that it gets interesting. But Lugoae just stand there and cop it, it would be nice to be able to use them as light reserves that can flank and get some guys in the back before charging. It seems perfectly plausible that they could get some, javelin is essentially just a spear and I'm sure they could get their hands on a few more than one. Just my opinion, I guess.

[russia almighty]

A hypothetical crappy unit would be Sally the Cataphracted Bactrian Camel ridden by The Persian Cataphract .

[140]

I did not had the pleasure to often: in my first battle as Getai my Drapanai were wiped out before getting in contact with the foe (not few by friendly fire ). Since that experince I a) never raised them again and b) make them a prime target for archers when on encounter with them - so far, I can't recall that I seriously had to fight them in close combat, save for a handfull of survivors.

WOW this is so wrong. This is like complaining Cataphracts are bad units when in fact you use them to charge elite phanlax from the front. Drapanai obviously needs to avoid archers like a plague but they kill EVERYthing else.

[konny]

WOW this is so wrong. This is like complaining Cataphracts are bad units when in fact you use them to charge elite phanlax from the front. Drapanai obviously needs to avoid archers like a plague but they kill EVERYthing else.

Now, that's the big question: I can avoid elite phalanx with my cavalry but how do I avoid arrows, stones and javelins on an EB battlefield with infantry and still attack the enemy?


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For the Lugoae: It's the same as with the Hoplitai Haploi. They are well in the role they are intended to fullfill but have no business in a real fight. Ever played the Sweboz? The Gaulls' AI will throw stack after stack of those poor guys at you and the majority of them will be butchered on the run. To be fair: before the first reform the Gauls have serious problems in raising much better units.


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Another unit of which I don't realy know what it is good for are the Polybian Triarii: They are weaker in defense than the Camillan version. They have the same armour than the Polybian Principes but don't throw Pila. And they cost more than both units. Their spears make them a good unit against cavalry, but that can be done by Classical Hoplites as well for a much better price (the Romans will be able to raise them in Polybian times).

[bovi]

Now, that's the big question: I can avoid elite phalanx with my cavalry but how do I avoid arrows, stones and javelins on an EB battlefield with infantry and still attack the enemy?

By withholding them until the main lines are joined? Wheel some cavalry around along with the drapanai to keep the archers busy while the falxmen crash into the rear.

[Parkev]

For the Lugoae: It's the same as with the Hoplitai Haploi. They are well in the role they are intended to fullfill but have no business in a real fight. Ever played the Sweboz? The Gaulls' AI will throw stack after stack of those poor guys at you and the majority of them will be butchered on the run. To be fair: before the first reform the Gauls have serious problems in raising much better units.

I'd just like them to have a few javelins, that's all. Other than that they are fine.

Another unit of which I don't realy know what it is good for are the Polybian Triarii: They are weaker in defense than the Camillan version. They have the same armour than the Polybian Principes but don't throw Pila. And they cost more than both units. Their spears make them a good unit against cavalry, but that can be done by Classical Hoplites as well for a much better price (the Romans will be able to raise them in Polybian times).

Anyone playing as the Romans can afford to forgo weighing up unit stats in order to have a correct legion. Its your duty as a player of EB.

[konny]

Anyone playing as the Romans can afford to forgo weighing up unit stats in order to have a correct legion. Its your duty as a player of EB.

You mean by playing around with the EDU

By withholding them until the main lines are joined? Wheel some cavalry around along with the drapanai to keep the archers busy while the falxmen crash into the rear.

...and crossing fingers that I don't have overseen any missle units. Yes, they may be fine under the correct circumstances, but - either with or against them - I have never been under such circumstances.

[Watchman]

I usually just shoot up the enemy missile guys first. Or have mean people on horses do something dreadful to them. Getai armies are something you don't want let opponents shoot at too much anyway.