Elephants , incredibly expensive.

[carthage_supreme]

starting a game as epeirotes , after playing a few turns i had an extremely high inflatation (-50 000). Why are elephants sooo expensive? i know it's due to add to the realism , but then again it makes the game unbalanced. It was the same for the bigger ships in an advanced stage playing carthage , they cost up to 2600+ in upkeep.

[NeoSpartan]

because they were expensive.

[carthage_supreme]

because they were expensive.

Yes but in the game they're unreasonibly expensive, one unit of elephants costs 2600. Yes they where expensive, but then again you have to consider that econimicly those empires propbably earned in gold is uncomperable to what there virtual equivalent in EB does. It's kinda unbalanced, that a one unit of elephants would tear the hole economy of a empire apart.

[NeoSpartan]

well I see what ur saying it is unbablanced... but then again... this is not a mod about "balance". Historically some factions were stonger than others in a few aspects of their army. ex: Romani Cohorts Imperatoria is extremely strong, very numerous, good morale, and cheap. They are better or at oar with a other faction's Elite infantry which tend to be expensive and less numerous. However, the Romani Imperial cavalry wing ain't worth 2 f***s in combat, plus it is expensive.

IF u want elephants you gotta have the $$ to support them, and thats a LOT of $$.

Some of the EB team might be albe to elaborate more than I can.

[Tellos Athenaios]

We've had this issue before; when my math outwitted Thaatu's reasoning. It is a combination of:
-The size you set in Video Options
-The fact that upkeep is regardless of forementioned Video Option

Besides the new Elephant skins will make it worth it.

[Olaf The Great]

Be like me and either double their unit size or halve(well technically 2/3'd) their price.

(I halved all boats :P)

[Thaatu]

We've had this issue before; when my math outwitted Thaatu's reasoning.

Hey, what the -!... I mean, it wasn't -! Look, I... You, uh... You didn't outwit me, I just didn't think of anything else to say. There you go.


The obvious follow up for my question was why have they been balanced to large unit size, since most players and many more in the future use huge, because computers are constantly getting more powerful, but I didn't ask it 'cos I didn't want to be a rash. But this reminds me of a possible bug/glitch/something-bad-happening, that I'm not sure I brought up in that discussion:

Why do elephant units with archers cost the same or more as elephant units without? If an elephant unit has archers and such, the amount of elephants in the unit drops. I don't remember exactly how the elephant stuff goes with Carthage, but it went something like this: A 24 man melee-only elephant unit has 24 crew members with 24 elephants, and a 24 man missile elephant unit has 24 crew members with 12 elephants, while the cost is almost or the same. The upkeeps and costs should probably notice the change in the amount of elephants.

[Son of Perun]

starting a game as epeirotes , after playing a few turns i had an extremely high inflatation (-50 000). Why are elephants sooo expensive? i know it's due to add to the realism , but then again it makes the game unbalanced. It was the same for the bigger ships in an advanced stage playing carthage , they cost up to 2600+ in upkeep.

Breeding and training elephants is difficult even today. Elephant eats about 160kg of forage per day. Captivity and battle-training is very stressful for elephants (elephant is a peaceful animal, a very cruel training is needed to make it a killing machine) and causes them die earlier. In 10 years about 1/5 of the herd dies and numbers have to be replenished by new elephants from India or Africa. That's why they are so expensive.

[TWFanatic]

I find it rather ridiculous that basic skirmishers, some of the cheapest units in the game, can easily bring down a massive number of elephants.

But they artillery are worse. They are extremely expensive, slow on the campaign map, and nearly worthless on the battlefield. But they are best used in sieges, you say. Well, you can build a few ladders and assault towers in their place for free! The cost of artillery far outweighs their use. Does anyone seriously use artillery in EB?

[Bootsiuv]

Not seriously I'd wager, but it's pretty sweet to see a successful hit from an onager in an open field battle.

I'd never use them seriously though....the game mechanics of free siege towers, ladders, etc. basically nuters any use they would have had in "serious" campaigns.

[Tellos Athenaios]

The cost of artillery far outweighs their use. Does anyone seriously use artillery in EB?

Me! Me! Me!

a) Hopping from island to island by ships; taking settlements with the army each turn - because I have the siege guys.
b) I don't fancy assaulting stone walls with sphendonetai standing on them - and I don't fancy assaulting those eastern cities with hordes of archers in them either...

[TWFanatic]

a) Hopping from island to island by ships; taking settlements with the army each turn - because I have the siege guys.
b) I don't fancy assaulting stone walls with sphendonetai standing on them - and I don't fancy assaulting those eastern cities with hordes of archers in them either...

a)Any time you save by taking a settlement the same turn you besiege it is more than made up for by the incredibly slow speed at which they march.
b)Sapping does basically the same thing, and it's free! As for wooden walls, it is only necessary to use a battering ram.

If you persist to advocate the usefulness of artillery, I will be forced to calculate how many hundreds of other units you could buy with that same money. Heck, you could afford enough men to PUSH over the freaking wall with the dough you spend on arty.

[Bootsiuv]

I shall persist to advocate the usefullness of artillery....let's see some numbers please. :P

[NeoSpartan]

a)Any time you save by taking a settlement the same turn you besiege it is more than made up for by the incredibly slow speed at which they march.
b)Sapping does basically the same thing, and it's free! As for wooden walls, it is only necessary to use a battering ram.

If you persist to advocate the usefulness of artillery, I will be forced to calculate how many hundreds of other units you could buy with that same money. Heck, you could afford enough men to PUSH over the freaking wall with the dough you spend on arty.

TW you are mising the point.. When u have a big enough economy and you are at war with a lot of people, but they have a LOT of rich cities defended by 1 or 2 units close the sea thats when U GO VIKING!!!.
Just look at how many HUGE cities are next to the Mediterranian sea LOTS of them, with 15K+ populations and HUGE buildings..... and that means $30k-40k+!!!! Plus the benefit of damaging the AI's infrastructure.

So again, IF u have a good enough economy and you are at war with LOT OF PEOPLE with cities bordering the Mediteranian sea here is what u do:
1-Get a ship,
2-Train a full stack with a Young and Healthy general.
3-Add a powerfull siege weapon to that stack.
4-Don't put a lot of cavarly in that stack u don't need that much.
5-Get eveyone into that ship!!!
6-Sail to the nearest city.
7-STOP right before u hit the coast line.
8-Wait a turn to replenish ur walking points.
9-Land
10-Siege
11-Attack
12-Loot
13-Rinse
14-Repeat!

In the course of a few turns you will be able to hit several cities and SACK a lot of $$. U don't need to return to retrain, buy Mercs on the coast when u land. Now.... how many turns and battles and HOURS would it take you to say, Go from KH to Carthege via FOOT!

get it ?

[Tellos Athenaios]

a)Any time you save by taking a settlement the same turn you besiege it is more than made up for by the incredibly slow speed at which they march.

But not so when you're moving by ships...

b)Sapping does basically the same thing, and it's free! As for wooden walls, it is only necessary to use a battering ram.

Not exactly when said sphendonetai are standing on top of the walls... I used to be very 'pleased' with sapping points standing in the middle of some are enclosed by a C-shaped stretch of wall with towers everywhere and slingers/archers on top of those...

If you persist to advocate the usefulness of artillery, I will be forced to calculate how many hundreds of other units you could buy with that same money.

It sure seems like it...

Heck, you could afford enough men to PUSH over the freaking wall with the dough you spend on arty.

And what would the sphendonetai do to such an assault?