what's your strategy?

[glouch]

i'm curious as to what kind of strategy other people use when they are playing EB.

in battles with 'civilized' and infantry-based barbarian factions, i usually let them come to me,, either by forcing them to attack me by besieging one of their cities. them its a matter of arranging phalangites into a continuous line with two assault units at either end to protect the flanks and prevent the phalanx line from disintegrating. once the enemy has engaged, i deploy my cavalry(usually one-third of the entire force), wipe out the ranged units and any supporting units, and finally hammer down the engaged enemy units against the phalangites.

but it gets tricky when fighting with horseman-based factions(sauromatae, pahlava, baktria, hayasdan) because they usually have LOTS of ranged units. usually around half of my entire army is also composed of long-ranged units(not just the pathetic psiloi archers) to counter the huge arrow storms. early in the game these factions are easy, but the longer the campaign goes the stronger they get because they have access to devastating cataphracts(seriously THE most annoying melee unit... so hard to kill them). this is especially evident with hayasdan and pahlava who aside from cataphracts also have cataphract generals that add to something that is already rock-hard annoying. for this reason half of my ranged units are slingers.

both of those strategies have a couple of things in common. i usually include in my army a unit that is numerous and cheap(such as parthian spearmen or akontistai) to act as 'cannon fodder'. they draw fire from the enemy's ranged units, preventing too much casualties to be inflicted. this is especially important when fighting with the horse/archer-factions mentioned above because, like i said they bring with them some of the most devastating arrow storms. Also i usually limit the number of phalangite units to around three or four. i usually make lines that are four or five deep, and sometimes even just three deep.

the logic behind that is what i need the phalangites to do is not to kill the enemy per se, but to HOLD them in place and PROVIDE a space for ranged units to kill troops from afar without having to worry about being attacked, as well as to provide a space where the army can regroup in case the going gets tough. i also usually have at least 2-4 units of assault infantry to plug-in holes that the enemy may punch through the line. very often this line is the fulcrum around which the battle takes place, and the horsemen and ranged units do most of the killing, unless of course my army is hard-pressed. but for the most part this strategy isn't designed for someone who wants to win victories with the good ol' push of the pike, and this is definitely the weakness of this strategy.

that being said, what is your strategy? :)

[Sir-S-Of-TURBO]

* Move up and secure a favorable defensive position.
* Let the enemy approach
* Send in the main body of my soldiers and busy the enemy line
* Use cavalry and mobile elites to take out hostile support units and general
* Rout the enemy main line one unit at a time, and keep the running, no prisoners!

If the enemy is unable to proceed with their attack I move up infront of them and proceed with the assault.

If I'm outnumbered and theres no retreat, slaughter as many hostiles as possible.

If I'm taking a city, achive local superiority in numbers or quality and rout the defenders until I have total superiority.

If they have superior numbers and I'm the defender I send them off on a goosechase or raid their lines until they are too dispersed to mount an effective attack, then I slaughter their units one by one through tying them up with one unit and flanking with another, by the time they get reenforcements I'll be outta there or have assembled more troops and ready for another slaughter.

They cannot win.

[Arzeal]

It sounds famalliar to mine :). I used watever regional troops who had shields and decent morales (they are always around at lv 2-3 regional barracks, levies can still do their jobs too) to be the cannon folders - the tricky part is try to build them from cities w. morale boost buildings and (hopefully) a blacksmith and I have elite factional troops or better mercs (watever infantry-based mercs ~3k mnai per unit work) to reinforce the lines and guarding the flanks - these better units from the flank will try to out-flank the enemies and surround the main line too. Heavier calvary do the killing from flank and storm the back. Ranged units are good whenever they r avaible but they always die too fast if u let them contact enemy forces, but I only used slingers and HA because archers unit in EB seems a little weak and many infantry have javelins already - hourse archers can still be very useful after they used all of their missles though.

Harrassing the routed units are extremely important to depleted enemy forces for the next fight - because you r limited in what you can bring anyway. But it depends on factions to do it well, I mostly use my generals and lighter calvary for the jobs at early games.

[Megas Pyrrhos]

If I can raise an ideal Makedonian army, when in battle I have a unit of argyraspidai or hysteroi pezhetairoi on both extreme ends of my pikemen line, with the deuteroi phalangite guys making up the inner part of the battle line, but with two additional units of argyraspidai or hyst. pez. right in the center. I have a unit of strong flank guards (not pikemen) at each end of the line to protect both sides of the line. I also have cavalry, usually at least two units of thraikian medium cavarly stationed far back, behind, and at the center of my battle line.

Under ideal circumstances and when battle commences, I split my battle line, right down the center, so that I have a unit and a half's width between the two center argyr./hyst. pez. units in the center, thus forming two seperate battle lines, and making it slightly longer, and having a seemingly vulnerable gaping hole in my line. I station my general to the right of the hole, nto too far behind the pikemen; right behind each of the two center argyr./hyst. pez., I try to station a thraikian peltast unit for support, or whatever else is handy and that doesn't mind melee combat. Any other missile troops I have are stationed to the left of the hole, more or less right behind the pikemen.

When the enemy closes the distance, they will often try to go for that center hole in my line, as it is vulnerable and my general is right near there. I let them go for it, and they end up attacking, and have to concentrate their attention on the argyr./hyst. pez. units there, their bodies turned at almost a right angle to my battle line in order to wrap around the pikemen. I then charge with my cavalry, right in the center, causing massive casualties to the enemy, and it usually takes only two or three charges, in wedge formation, to break any units attacking my center. It seems like a fairly effective strategy in battle.

The make-up of the army is based on if I was losing a war to Rome, and had lost Greece proper, so that I had the thraikian lands and that would be where I would raise such an army.

[konny]

When defending I like to hide one wing in woods, prefered first class units that are equipped with javellins as well (works very well with Sweboz, Romani and the like). When the enemy tries to outflank what he belives is my right wing, but what is actually the center of my line, he runs into the ambush of the real right wing. They get a moral penality for 'emerging enemy', are already exhausted, now showered with javellins and charged from close distance. That will usualy break his assault wing on the spot.

Haveing a few horsemen hidden even further right (or left, if the woods are on that side) ready to cut down the routed units, can take out 1/3 of the enemy army within minutes.

[Primus Inter Duces]

Dominate (achieve clear superiority over) the enemy in as many aspects of the battle as possible. Strike where they are weak. Avoid where they are strong.

Against a massed melee force:

-Use superior mobility (cavalry, missile units) to harass and divide while wearing down enemy units' morale, energy, and numbers. Try to isolate and destroy (in this order): strong missile units, general(s), light cavalry, light infantry. Use such tactics to weaken the enemy and "probe" their line until a crucial weak spot develops. Smash whatever unit lies there with overwhelming force: a hail of missiles followed directly by elite cavalry/general/shock troops. Force the unit to route while demoralizing nearby enemy with missile/morale-affecting units. Breach the line and cause a "domino effect" rout that spreads to other units (attacking with overwhelming localized force ala shock and awe), then exploit with cavalry and missiles. If any enemy unit doesn't quickly break, your main force should skirt it while you bring up missile units to engage. Use large melee units to intimidate enemy into breaking sooner by proximity (distraught at number of enemies/concerned about exposed flanks). Having the bulk of your force support by missile fire and passively "fixing" the enemy in place means that (a) elite units are doing most of the fighting, which they are best suited to do without losses, and (b) your main infantry force are rested and ready to pursue a broken and exhausted enemy. Cavalry/elites are the vanguard, the element that shatters the enemy then moves on, while light units/infantry can steamroll/mop up the routing forces. Having broken the rest of the enemy, the cavalry/elites can double back and head off any survivors.

Against cavalry forces - better cavalry, spears/phalanx, long-range missiles

Against missile forces - terrain advantage, cavalry

More specific tactics:
-Deploying missile units in square formations so they can maneuver swiftly while maintaining cohesion. Also makes it easy to gradually "envelop" oncoming enemy because the squares farthest from the center can easily turn and fire after flanking.

-Using bait and switch methods with long-range missiles and cavalry to draw enemy skirmishers/missile units away from the protection of the main battle line

-Exhaust enemy units and break up main battle line by luring units away in pursuit of highly-mobile flanking forces

-Use heavy cavalry to slow an enemy retreat by briefly engaging, then fleeing as soon as the enemy unit turns. (Buys time for the rest of my army to catch up)

-Make an attacking enemy come all the way across the battlefield to you if the odds are anywhere close to even. A few skirmishers or cavalry (where appropriate) can detach large numbers of the enemy force in futile pursuit, especiall if you main force is hiding.

-Overwhelm enemy if their reinforcements are delayed so that the day is won before reinforcements arrive.

-Manually pursue enemy forces by running ahead of them and heading them off toward a more distant edge of the battlefield. Useful to buy time when you don't have enough units to effectively pursue a majority of the enemy force.

With pre-charge javelin units, I enable guard mode and fire -at-will while reducing formation length to concentrate the most fire on advancing enemies.

-Playing 'monkey-in-the-middle' with two of your units vs one enemy unit

-'Capping the T' can be useful when an enemy sallies forth.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Some nice detailed points there Primus Inter Duces, it's nice to know I'm not the only ruthless son of a bitch when it comes to fugitives.

Reading yor points I wonder what lengths of detail most players employ regarding tactics? One would think anyone who is simply at this forum would automatically be an advanced player/tactician.

What do you mean by 'capping the T' when the enemy sallies forth?
Do you mean you charge into them whilst you get organised, or strangling/flanking their gate exodus full stop?

Greetings glouch mi old sausage,
I play AS, when facing armies with alot of horse archers, I pull my wings back a fair bit, using my pike line(usually 6 brigades 6 deep, 240 men each) somewhat as a fortification I use paired heavy cav to try and chip away at them by trying to flank/get round the back, whilst making small charges with elite/heavy flank inf.
I also use my horse archer unit to 'grab' hold of one of theirs and quickly bring up my heavy cav, whilst if poss withdrawing my own horse archers(which will be the ones with higher melee skills)to make things a bit one sided.

From here things can heat up rapidly on the flanks as the AI will commit its heavy cav, to this mix I again use localised heavy flank inf and my armoured Nellies(note in more than one of these massive flank battles I have had to borrow heavy cav/Nellie unit from the other flank). These flank battles are intense and have to be carefully timed and monitored, because whilst I am tearing up what they have already committed, their inf (some times transferred from their centre reserves) will be coming to support said affair. This means defeating what I'm dealing with and redressing the flank, whilst keeping up a limited pursuit of their broken forces.

I find their archers don't get to do to much damage, unless they fire across into the flank of one of the phalanx's.

[Timoleon]

Primus Inter Duces, that's a great post!

Deploying missile units in square formations so they can maneuver swiftly while maintaining cohesion. Also makes it easy to gradually "envelop" oncoming enemy because the squares farthest from the center can easily turn and fire after flanking.

This sounds like a good advice!

Using bait and switch methods with long-range missiles and cavalry to draw enemy skirmishers/missile units away from the protection of the main battle line

I use a similar tactic to lure enemy cavalry away from the main battle line.
I move slingers, in loose formation, way before my main battle line, having cavalry (or fast-moving spear infantry) in close support. Taking advantage of slingers' long range, I order them to shoot at the enemy cavalry units, or, even better, the enemy general. The result is that they kill a lot of cavalrymen and that usually makes enemy cavalry charge at them without infantry support, allowing my own cavalry to defeat them easily! That way I get a really big advantage for the rest of the battle.

Capping the T' can be useful when an enemy sallies forth.

This is a naval tactic, isn't it?
By that I understand that when an enemy sallies forth, we place our missile troops in a line, facing the enemy town, shooting at them taking advantage of the bottleneck at the gate.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

The naval tactic is called 'cutting the T' not capping it, unless Primus Inter Duces got muddeled in his termonology?

[russia almighty]

collaspable center. When the enemy charges my center moves outta the way and the dudes on the side swoop in and those dudes in the center turn around and attack. Cavalry swoops around to the rear and ****s(can we say the f word?) them up.

[Primus Inter Duces]

The naval tactic is called 'cutting the T' not capping it, unless Primus Inter Duces got muddeled in his termonology?

I believe you mean my "terminology"

The other EB (Encyclopedia Britannica) says "Crossing the T." That reflects how the naval ships would continually rake an advancing enemy front by moving perpendicularly.

I said "Capping the T" because that reflect precisely what I do. After considering the quality/range of enemy defenses and missile units, I deploy my units in a a curved line centering on the optimal point of engagement.

Optimal being determined by several characteristics. The enemy emerges in narrow marching columns through the gate, usually only one or two units at a time. Once they pass through that chokepoint, they will reform and either engage the nearest of my units or - if my units are far enough away - wait for the rest of their units to emerge and reform into a battle line. The size of an enemy formation [and the RTW engine] determines how far a unit must march until the last of its men has cleared the gateway. There are two ways to exploit this: (a) Either bring your units as far forward as possible to engage the enemy while their column is vulnerable in a narrow marching formation, or (b) allow the chokepoint and impetuousness to work - the first few units out will move to attack your nearby units (they can be lured out and overwhelmed before reinforcements can arrive). The other characteristics are dependent on your tactics and troops.

Be mindful of cavalry sallying forth from another gate, however.

My optimal "capping" strategy (against walls less than stone and enemies without long range missile units) looks like this (with an Aedui army):

[konny]

Apart from all fine art of generalship, I always have the most exciting battles when I keep things as simple as possible for the AI.

For that I have to be the attacker. I cannot recall an AI attack that had caused much more than a little trouble - may be when I am extremly outnumbered, but that's rare too. The AI is coded to simple flanking manouvers without beeing coded to simple rules of flanking - like engaging the main line first.

So, when I am attacking I arrange my troops in a conservative formation with the missle units and light support troops in the front, right outside range. Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar were first class generals; but such men do not pop up more than once a century. The majority of my generals fight strictly after the manual. It might happen that now the AI is running left and right like a beheaded chicken, that is when my line is not exactly parallel to his. So I wait until he has finished.

Now I move my light troops in range, but keep the main line where it is to leave ample room for a skirmish battle. I also send the cavalry a little foreward, because often enough the only way to get a real cavalry battle from the AI is to encounter all those Kamikaze-riders, that try to chase my archers right into my phalanx, before that. If everything is going as it should, the AI now will send his missle troops foreward to encounter mine. I make them the target what should lead to a real skirmish battle with light troops chaseing each other between the lines. That ends when one side or both have spent their ammo. Sometimes a unit or two of either side will route (BTW, casulties caused by missle fire are most of the times 'healed' after battle).

Now I can go on to phase three: the advance of the main line. I try to advance parallel to his line and engage the enemy troops frontal on the whole length of the line. I only try flanking manouvers by breaking his units on that flank. The only exception is cavalry that returns from chaseing away enemy cavalry and can enter the battle from that direction.



The reason for doing all this is that I think the battle map is simply much to large (or the units way to small), I would say about 10 times to large. If I would make up 'historical battles' out of my campaign battles I would just display the zone were the forces engage adding some 1,000 metres left or right. But the in-game maps, scaled by the size of forces, represent about 30x30 km or even 50x50 km.